do Christians want their values enforced on everyone by law?

public schools (which are governmental buildings) are regularly used by church groups to this very day. that's the nature of a building for the people. it can be used for anything the people wish to use it for. it does not mean the government is associated with every practice committed within the walls of said building.and when i vote on tuesday, i'm doing so at a church. chances are there are many other people here doing the same.

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Neither is Christianity. It consists of many individual groups as do secularists and gays. I don't believe I said secularism imposes itself on religion. I said secularists work towards their interests as do Christians to have imposed laws they support passed by government.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Well then, my friend, don't complain when we Christians get our preachers preaching at regular church services in Congress and use the military bands to do the music. Urge your congressman to throw in some $$ as well to pay the preacher and buy choir robes.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Why do you assume a dichotomy between "secularists" and Christians?

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no, secularism allows for christianity. and every other religion. that's the idea of separation of church and state, to protect the church. not the state. your language implies two mutually exclusive groups working towards opposite ends. as a christian, i want to keep religion out of government. is that so hard to understand? the fact that my faith is my decision is something i hold very dear for both religious reasons AND political ones.

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congress is no longer an open and public building, that serves that function. and i would be honestly surprised if military bands didn't play christmas carols. it's called "tax exemption."

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Once again, ignoring the point, either intentionally or obtusely.These are all counter-examples to your claim that there was more "Christianity in government" in the past than there is now. Are you now prepared to either retract that statement, admit that you have no support for it, or provide further examples?Or is it time to cut your losses and go try to fight another battle?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

quote:

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I don't believe I said secularism imposes itself on religion. I said secularists work towards their interests as do Christians to have imposed laws they support passed by government.

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Buz, if you like the fact that the US enjoyes freedom of religion for all of it's citizens, the you should be supporting the secularists. It is the secularists, buz, who support freedom of religious expression for all, not the Christian Right.If you support the current representation of the Christian Right, you are supporting people who wish to impose partial or complete Theocracy.The Christian Right wishes to make their religious views into law.Can't you see that this is wrong? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

What he can't see is that it is not just wrong, it is stupid. The last two times it succeeded was under the Roman Catholic Church and under the Church of England. He should ask himself just how well the little splitter sects like the Evangelicals or Fundamentalists will do under the rule of either the RC or COE.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm a Christian and a conservative but I don't agree wuth the death penalty. You only cut programs that don't bear any fruit. The Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act is a Federal law that now mandates the government tells us exactly to what programs our taxes are going to. Its a great idea. It even critiques all programs on its effectiveness. If you'd like to see where your taxes are going, provided you are American Tell that to your buddies. Even Snopes.com, a good b.s. detector, knows that Iraq was an preeminent threat to the stability of the democratic world. On capital punishment, they aren't wrong. It is a personal matter for me to be against the death penalty. But it is not wrong by itself.He who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

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For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

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Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor." -Romans 13:1-7Its kind of like vegetarians in the Bible. If your brother is a vegetarian because he views it as wrong, then let it be wrong for him. But likewise, do not listen to the vegetarian who says that you are wrong because you eat meat. Eating meat is not unlawful for the man who eats it. But if the vegetarian says its a sin for himself, then let it be. The point being, don't stumble your brother over something as trivial as food. Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : spacing

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"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2^nd Corinthians 10:4-5

I have no idea what you're talking about. Congressional chaplains and the like are of no concern to me or any other secularist. We still say "under God" in the pledge of allegience so your paranoid delusions of being held back by "secularists" simply don't hold up to reality.The simple truth of the matter is that you're flat-out wrong. There was considerably less "Christianity" in government at the time of the founders than now; the founders would never have even considered the idea that the US Constitution would need to specify who couldn't marry who, or that people could or couldn't drink alcohol. Not only would they have recognized these things as violations of the First Amendment, they would have objected to them as violations of the philosophy of Federalism.

Forget it.... *delete* off-topicEdited by nemesis_juggernaut, : No reason given.

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"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2^nd Corinthians 10:4-5

Except in Utah, where marriage is defined as the bond between man and woman and woman and woman and woman.

That's fair.Personally, I don't think he an be put into a political category. If anything, Christ avoided power on earth, and politics.People have called me a liberal Christian, or alluded to it. That annoys me because I have not claimed any political persuasion.

I expect they were commenting on your religion, not on your politics. If they had wanted to comment on your politics, the term should be "Christian liberal".