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Author | Topic: do Christians want their values enforced on everyone by law? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
In the Haggerd thread, a side thread started regarding the political leanings of Jesus. NJ wrote in Message 56:
quote: I replied, in Message #64, by writing:
Jesus was a pretty radical Liberal in a lot of ways. He was anti-business wealth and greed. He was big into compassion and "he who is without sin can cast the first stone" is pretty famous. He blessed the peacemakers, and admonished his followers to turn the other cheek to those who would do us evil. He commanded, "love thy neighbor as thyself" and encouraged people to support the poor, even saying that his followers should sell everything they have and give it to the poor. He encouraged people to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" Faith then replied, writing in Message #65:
quote: To which I replied in Message #67:
But he believed in all of those Liberal principles as good and righteous things to do, which would earn great rewards in heaven. They should therefore really be called Christian, as well as Liberal principles, I suppose. Maybe you should remember that the next time you start to slag off on Liberal values. To which Faith replied in Messgae #70:
quote: And finally, I responded, in Message #72:
OK, now I'm confused. I thought that you WANTED the state to enforce christian principles? There was no response. ------------------------------------ The question I have is regarding this seeming contradiction in what Faith is saying. On the one hand, she agrees that all of those Liberal principles of compassion and not being judgemental, paying your taxes, being peacemakers and turning the other cheek, etc. are all good Christian values. She then claims that Jesus shouldn't be thought of as a liberal because he didn't advocate those principles being imposed upon us through the government. What I'd like to understand is why she, or any other Christian, would be opposed to these Christian principles being imposed by the government but completely support the governement imposing other Christian principles, such as banning gay marriage, banning embyonic stem cell research, stopping FDA approval of certain drugs because they have a religious objection to their uses even though those uses are legal, etc? Social issues, please Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
But your reply doesn't answer the question.
Why do Christian conservatives vote to support the death penalty, or vote to cut funding to programs to help the poor, or vote to go to war on a country that has never threatened or injured us, or vote to support business greed and wealth? Why do they do that when it is so clearly counter to what even Faith has agreed are good Christian values?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
OK, how about if I said that Jesus held values in common with what we would call "social Liberals" today?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: True, but in the US, it's the Christian Conservatives who are behind the interference, for no valid secular reason. Most people in the US support it, just as most people in the US support a woman's right to an abortion.
quote: Except that you are forgetting the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
quote: Right. I don't get your point.
quote: Oh, don't worry about that. But again, your laws have to abide by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you want the state religion of the US to be Christianity, buz? Do you want a Theocracy?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, you people think you ever had the right to indoctrinate all American schoolchildren into your religion?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Buz.
Read the Jefferson quote in my sig file. "Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But this doesn't address my question. I wanted to know why it was that Christians are all gung-ho to get some of their religious views imposed upon everyone else by force of law, but not others. Why don't they try to enforce Jesus' attitude towards the greed and wealth of businesses, or his admonition to take care of the poor, or his lessons regarding how we should treat our enemies?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Buz, if you like the fact that the US enjoyes freedom of religion for all of it's citizens, the you should be supporting the secularists. It is the secularists, buz, who support freedom of religious expression for all, not the Christian Right. If you support the current representation of the Christian Right, you are supporting people who wish to impose partial or complete Theocracy. The Christian Right wishes to make their religious views into law. Can't you see that this is wrong? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Christ smashed up the money lender tables in the tmple.
He also was builled as the warrior king who was to lead Israel to a military civtory over it's enemies. I'd say that's pretty political.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Again, buz, if you like the fact that all citizens of the US enjoy freedom of religious expression, then you should be supporting the secularists. Why do you think it's OK for people to pass laws which would, by law, impose their religious views on you?
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