do Christians want their values enforced on everyone by law?

In the Haggerd thread, a side thread started regarding the political leanings of Jesus. NJ wrote in Message 56:

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Jesus isn't a Conservative and He isn't a Liberal.

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I replied, in Message #64, by writing: Faith then replied, writing in Message #65:

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Jesus is different from a Liberal in that He never suggested that people should be FORCED by the government to do all those good things. Obedience to God is an individual thing.

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To which I replied in Message #67: To which Faith replied in Messgae #70:

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All those "liberal" values are for individuals, not for the state to enforce. That's all I'm saying. They are certainly Christian principles for believers to obey.

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And finally, I responded, in Message #72: There was no response.------------------------------------The question I have is regarding this seeming contradiction in what Faith is saying.On the one hand, she agrees that all of those Liberal principles of compassion and not being judgemental, paying your taxes, being peacemakers and turning the other cheek, etc. are all good Christian values.She then claims that Jesus shouldn't be thought of as a liberal because he didn't advocate those principles being imposed upon us through the government.What I'd like to understand is why she, or any other Christian, would be opposed to these Christian principles being imposed by the government but completely support the governement imposing other Christian principles, such as banning gay marriage, banning embyonic stem cell research, stopping FDA approval of certain drugs because they have a religious objection to their uses even though those uses are legal, etc?Social issues, pleaseEdited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

But your reply doesn't answer the question.Why do Christian conservatives vote to support the death penalty, or vote to cut funding to programs to help the poor, or vote to go to war on a country that has never threatened or injured us, or vote to support business greed and wealth?Why do they do that when it is so clearly counter to what even Faith has agreed are good Christian values?

OK, how about if I said that Jesus held values in common with what we would call "social Liberals" today?

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1. The issues you cite are issues at large and not limited to Christians. For example gay marriage may be banned in some totalitarian anit-Christian nations and are banned as I understand.

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True, but in the US, it's the Christian Conservatives who are behind the interference, for no valid secular reason.Most people in the US support it, just as most people in the US support a woman's right to an abortion.

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2. All governments impose laws. In a democratic republic such as ours the people choose who gets into government position to impose laws. So when the electorate votes, regardless of ideology, the electorate at large decides who will impose laws. Gays likely will support their agendas and evangelicals theirs. Ultimately Christians perse impose no laws. Elected officials do that. We all work in the system to advance our ideological agendas.

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Except that you are forgetting the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

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3. The majority way back in Jefferson's day in fact voted for this president who had church services in the halls of congress and decided that the marine band would be nice for the music in those services. Magin that. Nowadays the majority wouldn't think of such a thing.

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Right. I don't get your point.

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4. So madear, do the American thing that's been done for 200+ years. Get out, root for and vote for folks who impose laws you want imposed and who refrain from imposing others. I and my Biblicalist fellow citizens will do the same.

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Oh, don't worry about that.But again, your laws have to abide by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

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When then does the alleged theocracy get the Bible back in government schools as it was for over a century before the secularists took over?

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Do you want the state religion of the US to be Christianity, buz?Do you want a Theocracy?

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It's unfortunate for us who's priviledges are forbidden by imposition of the majority electorate.

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So, you people think you ever had the right to indoctrinate all American schoolchildren into your religion?

Buz.Read the Jefferson quote in my sig file.

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"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

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Christians are in a pickle.

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They want the kingdom to come - for all goodness comes with it.

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Yet seeing as Gods laws being broken is an integral part of a person being convinced they are lawbreakers (which is instrumental in their salvation) all that upholds Gods law (such a no gay marriage) seems to work counter-salvation.

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You could understand that we can be two-minded about such things. Not wanting people to be allowed freefall into sin. Yet realising that the depravity of sin is their only hope. Parents experience it: you have to let go but you don't want to let go.

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But this doesn't address my question.I wanted to know why it was that Christians are all gung-ho to get some of their religious views imposed upon everyone else by force of law, but not others.Why don't they try to enforce Jesus' attitude towards the greed and wealth of businesses, or his admonition to take care of the poor, or his lessons regarding how we should treat our enemies?

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I don't believe I said secularism imposes itself on religion. I said secularists work towards their interests as do Christians to have imposed laws they support passed by government.

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Buz, if you like the fact that the US enjoyes freedom of religion for all of it's citizens, the you should be supporting the secularists. It is the secularists, buz, who support freedom of religious expression for all, not the Christian Right.If you support the current representation of the Christian Right, you are supporting people who wish to impose partial or complete Theocracy.The Christian Right wishes to make their religious views into law.Can't you see that this is wrong? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

Christ smashed up the money lender tables in the tmple.He also was builled as the warrior king who was to lead Israel to a military civtory over it's enemies.I'd say that's pretty political.

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The implications in this thread made that we less secularist Christians want a theocracy is false in that it's government that imposes laws and we all work to promote laws more suited to our ideology.

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Again, buz, if you like the fact that all citizens of the US enjoy freedom of religious expression, then you should be supporting the secularists.Why do you think it's OK for people to pass laws which would, by law, impose their religious views on you?