What are the Degrees of Fundamentalism?

Oops....I was unclear. The Christian bit that may well exist in those places isn't covered much, outside your Easter comment kind of story. It's explicit with the Religious Right.And network news is centrist. Chiroptera and Coragyps are leftist.

Hi all,The topic is doctrine and the difference between doctrine that results in different actions for different fundamentalists stemming from the same core beliefs.Without trying to pick on you Faith, you have said in the past that you agree with fundamentalist Moslems who say that the west is in trouble because of its immoral decadence and sinfullness.The question then becomes, do you agree with the Phelps? Why or why not?If so do you agree with the Phelps' (or Fallwell's or Robertson's) method of condemning America based on that belief? Why or why not?If so then what doctrine do you hold differently then them that distinguishes your band of fundamentalist from theirs.If buzsaw is watching I would love to here him chime in too. He takes things one step further to say that the state of things are a sign of the end times.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

My experience is similar. I know a lot of people who would call themselves "fundamentalists", but they'd be embarassed to be seen at a protest (never mind carrying a sign with "fag" on it).I get the impression that most of them agree "in principle" with the Phelpses and Falwells, but draw the line at getting in people's faces about it.Maybe there really is a "personality difference" between Americans and Canadians. Or maybe our very large Catholic minority makes fundie political activity irrelevant.

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I started the thread with sort of an assumption that nobody would really want to align with the Phelps for reason that I just sort of assumed were obvious. Now I am not so sure.Are they then all just of the same cloth with different shades? Does it all just boil down to personal preference as to how to act on the belief that America is going down the toilet?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Based on what has been said here at EvC I would imagine that many Christians, whether they identify themselves as Fundamentalist or Evangelical or any other movement, sect or denomination, agree with the Phelps position, but not necessarily with the Phelps tactics.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think the beliefs are all part of the same spectrum.There have been a lot of discussions around here on the difference between what a person believes and how a person acts on those beliefs. A lot of people (fundie and non-fundie) will talk about starving children in Africa, but many of them won't actually do anything about it.Similarly, in their church groups, family groups, etc. I think a lot of self-proclaimed "fundamentalists" will espouse the same ideas as the Phelpses. But they don't feel comfortable acting out those ideas in public. (Bearing in mind that outside the U.S., people are less likely to wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves.)

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If they agree with the position though then what is there to be ashamed about the tactics? Is it just that they don't agree with the efficacy of protesting?What good is having a particular conviction about something if the only thing it causes you to do is to complain about it on the internet and/or vote conservative once every couple of years.It seems pretty clear that many fundamentalists are gung-ho pro-America as they are about other topics like homosexualty/evolution/etc. I would think/hope that they would have a problem with yelling at war widows on the day of the husbands funerals.I just want to know why us non-fundamentalists should consider their position of the decline of civilization due to sin any differently then the Phelps'. Maybe we shouldn'tEdited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

"Covered" is kinda irrelevant when it's the liberal Christian point of view that DOES the covering. That's the point. Bill Moyers (is he still doing his thing?) IS liberal Christianity. Any Biblical or theological matter that comes up in the news will get the usual liberal Christian authorities out to comment on it.And again, when fundies get covered they get covered FROM a leftist point of view. Well, that's true. Only someone from the far left could find network news "centrist."

I'm not familiar with the Phelpses. It is only from EvC that I have the impression that they say "God hates fags" and that's wrong from many angles. I know nothing whatever about their Christian doctrine or how they justify such a statement. I have no idea what the Phelpses may have said on the subject. With Robertson and Falwell, the fingerpointing at a particular group of sinners as the cause of 9/11 was very wrong, but I agree in general that the sins of this nation are ripe for God's judgment. In my view 9/11 is certainly judgment, but of a very mild sort really, a warning of judgment yet to come. I think the weather disasters are also God's judgment against the US.I have to give Robertson and Falwell credit for pronouncing 9/11 as God's judgment though. There were very few other Christian leaders who did so -- in better doctrinal form, however, than Robertson and Falwell did IMO -- but otherwise Christians had a basically worldly rather than Christian response to the event, the attitude that God couldn't have been in that event at all, and a focusing on worldly enemies instead of on the spiritual disease of the nation. I think mostly that because of their public prominence they are very likely to get caught with foot in mouth, rather than that they hold some doctrinal view I strongly disagree with. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't see any reason to consider their position on anything. Look at civilization itself and see if you think it's in decline, and if so, then look at the evidence to see if you can identify the causes.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree with what your trying to say, but disagree how you said it. Rhetoric is a fruit, a bad one.Yes, we know people by their fruits, good or bad. It's how we treat them, or act towards them that is being screwd up by people like phelps.At no point in the bible, except maybe for the time in the temple where Jesus kicks over the tables, does Jesus do anything to hurt anyone.If the phelps are sinless, then they can throw the first stone. Otherwise they should shut-up and deal with life, maybe try loving people instead.

Congradulations faith. You just judged the 3000 innocent people who lost their lives on that fateful day. Maybe you even sent them to hell.Also the people that died in Katrina.What is next, like to shoot for the 250,000 and a big wave?For God so loved the world, faith. We are forgiven faith.
There is more than one righteous person in America I am sure. This ain't sodom you know, or is it that time.
Earthquakes will happen, wars will happen, it's all birthing pains. We are supposed to love, not insult the dead and their families.
Maybe you should join the phelps and their picket lines.

Growing up in NYC I was mostly unaware of people like that.

When you drive down the road in the right lane, the center is to the left of you.When you see a viewpoint as "leftist" you are really meaning left compared to your viewpoint. If your viewpoint is extremely rightist (as yours tends to be) you will see centrist as leftist.That doesn't make it so.Personally I find NPR and Public Radio caters far too much to the rightists in their attempt to be "fair and balanced" in their reports. The series on ID was a case in point. If they were indeed "leftist" they would have trashed the concept completely. They didn't. They hardly challenged it (I thought it was unforgivably easy on the the concept).This "leftist media" is a myth of the far right (media).Now let's get back to the topic eh?Do you agree with Phelps? Do you agree with the concept of invading a funeral to force a religious message down peoples throats?Enjoy.

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No, I did not judge the victims at all. That's God's prerogative. God takes us all in our time, and I'm sure many of those victims belonged to Him.God judged the NATION that day, and there is certainly more to come since there are no signs of national repentance that I've seen. Some of our former Presidents called for days of fasting and repentance. I guess we can't expect that any more.Nothing happens without God or do you believe in a God who is powerless over events? Are you aware that the Old Testament was "written for our admonition?" and wouldn't that include the many times it reports that God sent prophets to warn His people and various nations of their coming due for judgment, and the many times it reports how the judgment came upon them? Again, death is not always condemnation of a person, Mr. Rat. Don't you know that scripture admonishes us against thinking so? And again you are denying the sovereign power of God over all things, and again I would point out that I said all these things are judgments upon the NATION as a whole. There are in fact repercussions from both disasters still being felt by the nation as a whole, economic for starters. Economic destruction of the nation is one of the curses God says in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that He would bring upon Israel if they failed to keep up their end of the covenant to obey Him. Again, admonition to us if we would only heed it. Be careful not to be like those Israelites who believed the false prophets of peace instead of the prophets of judgment. Believers are forgiven, Mr. Rat, and surely the death of Christ brought great blessings to the entire world as well, but not forgiveness of sins to any who do not receive Him as Lord. And we ought to look to the OLD Testament for understanding of God's dealings with whole nations rather than individuals. Of course the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is of the same type, and God has not been absent from all the history that has followed the close of the canon either, right down to every nation on earth at this very moment. Or you believe in a lesser God than the One who reigns. God calls Jerusalem itself "Sodom." Don't be so sure He has any higher regard for the US of A. Read those passages about birthing pains prayerfully and carefully. They are harbingers of dreadful judgment against this planet before the coming of God's Kingdom on earth.And it's funny how a supposed Christian should remind me of this passage of scripture:2Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: It's a phony "love" that would lie to people.