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Author Topic:   Is creationism winning in Turkey & Korea?
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 23 of 77 (308207)
05-01-2006 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by simple
04-30-2006 12:22 AM


relative writes:
Some knowledge is better not increased.
Don't you mean 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' ?
In your case, for example.
quote:
quote:
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you have betrayed a lack of knowledge of what science really is and what it's natural limits are,
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Thats what you think.
No, that's what you clearly stated below.
You seem to see science as an 'anti-belief' and favor definitions of science that include supernatural explanations.
But back to topic, was everyone aware that the teaching of evolution is completely outlawed in Pakistan ? And aren't they just a model society of scientific achievement worth emulating? Anyone want to go to Pakistan for medical treatment? Maybe start a modern agricultural enterprise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by simple, posted 04-30-2006 12:22 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by simple, posted 05-01-2006 11:39 PM EZscience has not replied

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 24 of 77 (308209)
05-01-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by simple
05-01-2006 2:18 AM


Re: say what?
relative writes:
Belief in God is verified by many, they feel.
They can 'feel' all they want but they don't 'know' diddley.
relative writes:
Simply doubting it doesn't make it go away.
No, but ignoring it usually does.
relative writes:
It is more certain than some other areas of knowledge.
And your metric of certainty is?
relative writes:
Godless knowledge is better not increased.
So any verifiable knowledge that is without reference to God is not worth building on? And to which God should this knowledge refer to increase it's value and worthiness of increasing?
relative writes:
the deck on this forum is stacked
... with people very capable of rebutting the mindless jibberish spouted by those wearing fundamentalist blinders.
relative writes:
All parts of science that you try to apply to the future are beliefs.
No. They are testable hypotheses that vary in the degree to which they have supporting evidence from past observtions.
The way we use the term 'belief' here on the forum is to refer to something that is based solely on faith without scientific evidence.
There have been whole threads debunking the efforts of the 'spiritually inclined' to equate science to a 'belief system'.
This message has been edited by EZscience, 05-01-2006 11:18 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by simple, posted 05-01-2006 2:18 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by simple, posted 05-01-2006 11:56 PM EZscience has replied

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 29 of 77 (308398)
05-02-2006 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by simple
05-01-2006 11:56 PM


Belief is not equal to knowledge
However much you would like to equivocate them.
You have a belief in the myths of biblical origins that you want to equate with the objective validation of knowledge through the scientific method. Whenever scientific understanding conflicts with your predetermined beliefs, you assume the science is wrong and is just another 'belief' - just not the right one.
relative writes:
Can you provide evidence that the sun will burn out, rather than last forever, in the new heavens as the bible states?
It follows logically from what we know about how all stars works.
Its called nuclear fusion.
There is only so much hydrogen in the sun's core.
Once it has all been fused to helium, there will ne no more energy produced and its 'main phase' will be over. Based on the estimated mass of the sun, this will take about 5 billion years.
Now you might say I don't have evidence to support this, but this is the scenario consistent with what we have observed in other stars and everything that is known about the laws of physics. ('known' - not 'believed'). What is not consistent with the laws of physics is the idea that a star can burn forever. Impossible. It has to run out of fuel eventually.
relative writes:
The bible says that this universe will pass away one day. It is temporary. Can you say that is wrong, or correct?
There is no currently agreed upon scenario for the end of the universe, but there are about 5 different possiblities. The 'big rip', which would put an end to most ordered mass, is one, so it can't be said that your statement is wrong. We honestly don't know. But tell me this. How is the damn sun supposed to last forever if the whole universe is only temporary? They can't both be true. Science doesn't have all the answers yet, but it has the power in many cases to rule out inconsistent explanations and tell us what CAN'T be true.
relative writes:
But silly speculations on the future you might want to call science is not verifiable.
Science has a lot of observation and power behind it to back it up so it is not without verificiation.
Biblical prophesies are the 'silly speculations' of people who lived 2000 years ago and didn't even realize the earth was round.
relative writes:
I equate the false beliefs of the past and future you might call science as the belief.
But science has a lot of proof about what happened in the past and what can be expected to happen in the future. You just don't want to accept it because you want to believe the bible so you have to deny anything that conflicts with it.
That's fine, but when we are talking about EDUCATION (as this thread is supposed to be about) than we have to distinguish between what is science and what is myth. Teaching people myths doesn't do anything to advance their knowledge or understanding. That's why we can never allow any form of religion to be equated with actual 'education'.
Creationism is a myth that doesn't have any explanatory power and is inconsistent with everything that science tells us has to be true. And as RazD has tried to point out to you, there are many different religions with their own creation myths.
They can't ALL be right and we can't teach any of them as if they were some sort of truth without disenfranchizing people who believe in others.
You have the right to pray to your God and espouse deluded mythologies, but you don't have a right to make everyone else do it in a PUBLIC school.
And when you try and contradict scientific knowledge with your mythology you just end up looking foolish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by simple, posted 05-01-2006 11:56 PM simple has not replied

  
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