Evolution and Specialness of Humanity

schraf/mike,
I know this is a bit late. I can't speak for everyone, and my deconversion was nowhere near as sudden (rather long and agonizing), but I think in retrospect that the same thing has surprised me - just not so quickly. I definitely had that view, and I think it was common with the believers I knew.If I'd known I was going to lose my faith, I probably would have offed myself at some point, given the horrible future I imagined thereafter. As it happens, I'm basically the same person now, though I'm working on improving little things here and there. The main difference is that I feel a little more free and less afraid on the good days.

Mostly the nihilism, I guess, and all the other sensations purported to result from lack of theism. Then I realized my kindness existed before my Christian upbringing nurtured it. Maybe my overactive sense of guilt did too, but I'm skeptical about that one. A little release is nice, as far as that goes.

I believe in the sun and rain, and usually I'll tell you I believe in love. Human good and human evil come into the picture pretty often as well.

Indoctrination is a beeyatch, yo.Most people never realize the full extent to which our perception and thinking is shaped by inherent assumptions and explicit instructions received in our upbringing. They are powerful forces, not least because they are so difficult to even recognize once ingrained in the worldview. At least the average person in this kind of place is usually thinking on a level where those concepts are recognized and dealt with.Sounding like you, especially the lucid and well-grounded MtW that you are lately, is a compliment to me.

Are you aware of any other demonstrable basis for belief? As a semi-ignorant layman, I suggest the following life cycle for beliefs:- start with initial state of infant brain (some predispositions, etc)
- sensory input acquired
- internal processing begins - brain processes/synthesizes data based on a simple rule-set contained in its initial wiring, stores data and somewhat reshapes itself; resulting patterns of neuron activity manifest themselves as "beliefs"
- brain continues acquiring input and synthesizing "beliefs" until the body fails to provide sufficient life support; brain ceases to function; "beliefs" terminateI would also suggest that in this scenario, to address your terms, "inputs" (as I use it) would be a superset of your "experience", and would include the intake of ideas through the ears and eyes, where the brain responds to learned symbols in a conditioned manner. "Human wisdom" would have to be divided into two categories: any wisdom held to be common to all humans - a perfect example being "eternity in the hearts of men" et cetera - would be considered an initial condition of the brain. Learned "wisdom" acquired from others would fall under sensory input (see above) unless a mechanism could be found by which data enters the brain without being sensed by the body.If I sound biased against the possibility of revelation, it's because hindsight shows me that every perceived semblance thereof was perfectly well explained by the operation of known mechanisms such as and blind guesswork confirmed by conditioning and ingrained doctrine. (oh no, that sounds suspiciously like RM/NS) Ditto for every instance claimed by another, at least those where I possess enough data to make an informed judgment. I stick with Occam and I find him quite trustworthy.

"Jeopardy"
don't worry about it though I've seen people try to argue that memes don't exist. Think it's kind of funny that you can try to deny the existence of something that was simply coined to describe mundane, everyday phenomena. Talk about a stupid meme....anyway, I'm about to bail, but I'm glad to be getting back into some entertaining discussions here.

cool.
I've always found your perspective interesting, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one.
Not sure how much life is left in this thread, though. It seems to be running long and slowing down. Kinda like watching Titanic....