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Author Topic:   Evolution and Specialness of Humanity
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 236 of 316 (252950)
10-19-2005 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by joshua221
10-19-2005 5:35 AM


A different approach
prophex writes:
Gould writes of the random events that occurred to make us. The spontaneousness of evolution could have literally not have created us. So we are really unimportant, we have no significance compared to other animals and organisms, we are part of a random process that did not care about our existence.
That's why I don't accept evolution.
You could also approach it differently: isn't it all the more remarkable and beautiful that such a haphazard process has in fact created you and me, who can feel love? I know for myself that the love I have for others is genuine, even though I rationally think it is a product of my mind, which in turn is a product of my brain, which in turn is a product of evolution.
we have no significance compared to other animals and organisms
We are the only ones who are capable of entertaining the concept of 'significance'. That in itself already makes us significant, wherever that capability came from.
we are part of a random process that did not care about our existence
And here we are, defying that uncaring process, by doing just the opposite: caring.
I find it much more amazing, almost magical even, to think that a mindless process has created mind, than that mind must have come from another mind. The latter I find utterly uninspiring and banal.

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

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 Message 234 by joshua221, posted 10-19-2005 5:35 AM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 266 of 316 (253132)
10-19-2005 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by joshua221
10-19-2005 4:57 PM


Re: A different approach
prophex writes:
I said that if evolution was true, it would be a fake love.
Let's suppose that what you say is true. Let's also suppose that evolution is true. Then it follows that the love you feel is fake.
But would you know this? The only love you know is the love you feel. You have no way of comparing it to another kind of love, a "real" love. Besides, your "knowing" love is also fake, as is your "feeling" love.
Now suppose, alternatively, that evolution is not true. Then it follows that the love you feel is real.
Again, would you know this? The only love you know is the love you feel. You have no way of comparing it to another kind of love, a "fake" love.
What I'm saying is that fake and real love feel the same. Either love is fake and what you feel is fake, or love is real and what you feel is real. But you can never know which is which.

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by joshua221, posted 10-19-2005 4:57 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by joshua221, posted 10-19-2005 8:38 PM Parasomnium has replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 274 of 316 (253279)
10-20-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by joshua221
10-19-2005 8:38 PM


Re: A different approach
prophex writes:
It's not as much the love itself, but the intentions behind the love given.
But if it all comes from on high, then how not-fake are your intentions anyway? Are they your intentions? Or are you a puppet on a string?
Let's try the different approach again:
prophex writes:
It's not as much the love itself, but the intentions behind the love given.
Same thing: fake and real intentions feel the same. Either intentions are fake or intentions are real. But you can never know which is which. All you can do, in your attempts to wriggle yourself out of this tight spot, is jump from one aspect of your mind to another: from love to feeling, from feeling to intentions and from intentions back to love. There's no way out of your mind, so you cannot know whether it's all fake or real.
But remember that this is all under the assumption that you were right about the causal connection between evolution and faked love. If you would entertain the thought that such a link does not really exist, and that evolution can be true while at the same time love is real, then your problem is solved.
Love as a result of evolution is no less real than your physical body, which is also a product of evolution. After all, it's your body, your love, and your experience of it. No strings attached.

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by joshua221, posted 10-19-2005 8:38 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by joshua221, posted 10-21-2005 3:03 PM Parasomnium has not replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 281 of 316 (253738)
10-21-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by joshua221
10-21-2005 3:25 PM


Remember, the afterlife lasts an eternity...
prophex writes:
Tell me something of this earth that gives one purpose! A true purpose.
A lot of people's lives on this earth are quite miserable. A good purpose might be to try and change things for the better.
The only purpose, is the one to find oneself and to find God.
I think that's a bit selfish.
The afterlife gives significance! This life is a life that cries out for purpose, for meaning, Searching what is physical, and what gives one satisfaction, will not result in truth.
It's not the destination, but the journey that counts.
we are to find God, and reach Nirvana, to get to Heaven, to become glorious in knowing that we have led a good life.
Do you think that, after having spent the first million years of an eternity in heaven, those measly 70-odd years on earth at the beginning of your existence will still seem so important?

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by joshua221, posted 10-21-2005 3:25 PM joshua221 has not replied

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