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Author | Topic: General discussion of moderation procedures: The Sequel | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I'd like to know is why we keep being accused of a refusal to learn although we may have put in many hours studying various aspects of the issues we are challenged with, as I have. I have read up on all kinds of basic information as well as specific information about specific issues. But there seems to be this naive expectation that creationists can just learn geology and biology AS IT IS TAUGHT BY EVOLUTIONISTS without having to do a lot of extra work doublethinking and translating it into terms we can make use of for OUR side of the argument.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Have whatever opinion of it that you would like. But please refrain from misrepresenting both the title and purpose of it.
Thanks, No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
This is a great argument for a thread I know.....care to take it there?
No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Faith, my experience is the average creationist willing to debate the issue not only understands ToE, but often understands it a lot better than the average evo, who usually learned a bunch of incorrect data and assumptions in school and never questioned it.
Plus, they even more rarely understand their critics. The premise that people just "don't understand" their theory or them is just absurd. This message has been edited by randman, 08-24-2005 06:18 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I would agree about understanding the ToE itself, but what I've had to catch up on just because they bring up this stuff is things like DNA and the geology of the Grand Canyon and the geology of looking for oil, etc., the nitty gritty stuff which is legit science except for all the evo terminology it's embedded in. What they don't suspect is that most of the information needs TRANSLATION out of Evospeak into plain English for a YEC to use it, AND the questions I have about it simply are NOT answered by these basic studies anyway. I'm sure they don't mean to but what they are asking is that I simply accept all the very stuff I'm arguing with. I don't know about you since you aren't a YEC but this is a lot more work and thought than I'm up to a lot of the time, especially only to be told I'm refusing to learn anything. At every turn the evo assumptions are so thick and so frustrating it makes it impossible to understand just what the #&$*#@% they think they are talking about anyway.
This message has been edited by Faith, 08-24-2005 06:33 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What thread is that?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I agree. Instead of "Understanding through Discussion", there seems to be sophistry, diversion, debating tactics, etc,....I even had one poster tell me the threads are not the people on them, but "for the lurkers".
It's probably a waste of time, but we seem to get sucked in anyway. In terms of some areas, it takes a bit of work, but if you can get an understanding of the process, then you often find some evos are just arguing from terminology and ignoring the heart of the real process, imo, and irregardless, detailed knowledge of a field often is not that all germane to the other areas ToE is based on. Irregardless, the vile accusations levelled at you, me, and other critics are totally uncalled for.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess we're off topic. I might take this to Jazz's thread later.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: I even had one poster tell me the threads are not the people on them, but "for the lurkers". Of course they are. Do you really think you're going to convince the person you're debating with? Do you think Kerry was trying to convince Bush? Or Bush was trying to convince Kerry? A debate is for the audience. If you understood that, you might do better around here. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
This is on topic though: What happened to your offer to become a mod here? I haven't seen any modding from you yet.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
As far as "doing better", I think the general anti-scientific and factual tone often resorting to personal attacks and outrageous accusations is pretty much evidence of the inability of my opponents to create a credible argument to refute the points I raise.
But wouldn't it be better for some of you evos to take the time to actually understand what your critics are saying, and then answer the substance of their points rather than try to score debating points "for the lurkers"?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Never heard back. I guess the answer was "thanks, but no thanks."
No harm, no foul. It's not a big issue.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: ... wouldn't it be better for some of you evos to take the time to actually understand what your critics are saying, and then answer the substance of their points rather than try to score debating points "for the lurkers"? It's not about "scoring points". It's about making your case in a way that the lurkers can understand. That is what you consistently fail to do. Don't worry about whether the "evos" take the trouble to understand what you're saying. I had a teacher once who said, "If you can't explain it to an eight-year-old, you don't understand it." If you do understand what you're trying to put across, put it across in such a way that an eight-year-old lurker could understand. Clearly, you're not getting through to your "opponents". If you're not getting through to the lurkers, what are you doing here? People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I think my points do get through to an open-minded person willing to look into the facts for themselves without prejudging the outcome.
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
Closing this one. Will open a continuation soon.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-24-2005 10:02 PM New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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