General discussion of moderation procedures: The Sequel

Why didn't you? I have never seen any pro-evlutionary members on this board suggest that teaching evolution should be used as a pulpit for preaching atheism, I have seen many anti-evolutionary members claim that ID should be taught. Bakkers post clearly did not believe ID belonged in the science classroom, hardly a position anyone on the pro-evolutionary side was going to take issue with.As to Dawkins, he can be a smug ass, I have never been his biggest fan so I can't say I'm cut up about Bakker's criticisms of him and I'm not familiar enough with his work to say whether the criticism of his historical view of evolutionary science's development is justified. I don't consider that sort of hardcore atheist evolutionist, who uses evolution as a rationale for their atheism, to be a common occurrence.I agree that the post provided some food for thought however, Perhaps it could be used as the basis for a new thread to discuss it, it might also provide a thread wher Dr. Bakker could continue to share his thoughts with us if he returns since the original thread he posted in has now closed.TTFN,WK

better welcomeHe got a very nice well off Yaro, me and some others - that's all he should expect. There is no VIP section here even Brenda would have to back her assumptions.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-Aug-2005 05:36 AM

I didn't because I can't post on science threads.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-10-2005 07:55 AM

I have no idea who this "Brenda" is you keep talking about, but about Bakker, I was just interested in his viewpoint, and I suppose his apparent prestige in his field made it all the more interesting because there isn't usually much in the way of prestige/clout on the creationist/religious side of the argument. Maybe the welcome was sufficient but only Yaro commented on his opinion at all, to say maybe it could be discussed in the future.

Was he offering support to the creationist viewpoint? He said ID was a religious idea - a certain No,no with the Discovery Insit.I just took it as a general call for standards in education and the teaching of critical thinking skills and giving students the tools to place things in historical context. I don't remember seeing anything in there I would disagree with.Brenda= Queen Betty of England.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-Aug-2005 07:37 AM

Not a lot of support but some sympathy and respect. I'm sure I don't agree with most of what he has to say but just that much is so rare on the evo side that it's intriguing. I still want to hear more. I'd be happy to eavesdrop rather than participate.

In case there's any uncertainty, the person who posted Message 218 was *the* Dr. Robert T. Bakker. He registered using Bakker's well known email address, zorilla47@aol.com. The post is from a short section of his frequently given lecture titled Bones, Bibles and Creation. He posted just the one message.I could find only one other board where Bakker has posted, and it appears he used the same approach, posting cut-n-pastes of stuff he'd already written. Check out The Pope’s Velociraptor — and the KKK (I think I read this somewhere, but I can't think where).Also check out this cached page at Google from the same discussion board (don't know why the original page is gone now): Another Bakker Post. Bakker's message is about 2/3 the way down this long page, and it's in the same pre-written style. He appears only to do post-and-runs of pre-written material and not engage in dialog.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Thanks for the info. It's always nice when an expert in a field engages in conversation with people, even if only indirectly on his area of expertise, but if he doesn't want to that's too bad. Interesting that his name has appeared on the board a few times since he posted, however, including this morning. He seems to be interested in people's response to his opinion.

i sure hope so. i'd like to join the ranks of people in awe that he posted here, if it truly is him. seriously, childhood idol and all that. when i was 7, i wanted to be him when i grew up.it should sort of be mentioned that he's a bit on the fringe of mainstream paleontology. he tends to take the extreme views, and comes out with outlandish theories. sometimes, mainstream paleontology catches up with him, warm-blooded dinos and all. sometimes, it doesn't agree, for instance on the extinction event ~65mya. he's a bit known for his "weird" views. well, it should. it's an old view. paley et al were arguing it 150 years ago, and darwin's theory was proposed as the alternative.i don't see what he's saying about dawkins, but maybe i just haven't read too closely. dawkins strikes me was the type who's trying to seel evo to the masses, not athiesm. but i guess i'll save that for the new thread.

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אָרַח

Dawkins does promote athism. He offten speaks on the subject. However, his books on biology, evolution, and ancestory are very good. At least from a laymans perspective, perhapse Mr. Bakker can log in and explain what is wrong with Dawkins views etc. I would certainly like to know if Dawkins misrepresents science at all.Further, his statements on St. Augustine intrigued me. I would love to discuss religion, theology, and science with him. Man, that's so cool, THE Rob T. Bakker! So cool.I used to think of him as a real live Indiana Jones when I was a kid

It's not a discussion thread.

Is the current security good enough to ensure that the email address belongs to the poster ?Because it seems to me that the modus operandi looks more like a troll pretending to be Bakker - anyone can cut-and-paste. And the post-and-run approach means that the poster doesn't have to produce any significant amount of text themselves - avoiding one of the obvious ways in which a fake could be exposed.

Another way to expose a fake would be to email Dr. Bakker at the given address, which Percy says is well known to be his. If he didn't post the information he'd respond to say so.

The poster would HAVE to have access to the famed email account. Your initial password is emailed to the account of record.He would have to be RT Bakker or someone closely associate with him.Either that or Bakker's email account is compromised.This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 08-10-2005 11:50 AM

possible. which is why i have my doubts. however, it does sort of sound like bakker. he is reportedly pentecostal.

quote:

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Bakker sees little conflict between religion and science. A Pentecostal preacher, he says scientists and creationists alike would do well to read Augustine, the fifth century scholar and source of much of the Christian tradition and belief. In addition to studying textual revelation, Augustine sought to interpret the scriptures in light of natural revelation. "And after reading Genesis and thinking about it he came up with the conclusion that the story in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 was not a simple historical sequence of events. It just couldn't be. It's not what the words meant. It just wasn't."

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Untitled Documenthe's also a bit over-the-top in voicing some rather fringe positions, some of which have now become mainstream. dino's with warm blood and feathers were extreme ideas. unheard of and probably not even imagined when he first brought them up. and mainstream science still doesn't like his disease-extinction model.so basically, if it's NOT bakker, someone's doing a pretty decent imitation of him.

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אָרַח