Let's talk about food

Ummm....me being a pervert and all, and based on some of the things I said in my original post...I'm not sure what you mean by "lubricating properties" . None-the-less, I'll assume you meant nothing but "good" things and answer accordingly. I guess I would like two or three answers. What is the best type to cook with in a saute pan or frying pan or whatever the hell one uses to lightly brown or saute foods (vegetables, mushrooms, meats, etc.). What would be the best type for sauces (cooked or uncooked) and what would be best for just pouring over something and eating it. Make sense?Flies Only

We're talking two different sensations here, Schraf. Rancid oil does more than bite like pepper. It stings your entire throat and you feel it for a while. I know this to be the case. It not only applies to olive oil, but all the essential oils and cooking oils. I have purchased both flax oil liquid and flax oil capsules. I have found that it was the unfrozen flax oil which burned/stung my throat. I've never had a problem with the frozen oil. I've had to return flax oil capsules on occasion because they stung my throat big time. Normally they will not and should not sting/burn your throat.. I learned this from a nutritionalist, either on the media or in a book, but it's been several years ago and I don't remember the source. I'll see what I can find for further documentation of this, as it is very important for our health to be aware of this.I have noticed that it is the cold pressed olive oils on warm shelves that I have had the most problem with. These are best for health by far, if they're fresh or frozen, but they do not hold up well on warm shelves for rancidity problems. The hydrogenated (not healthy) ones have a longer shelf life and do not tend to rancify as soon. I suppose that's why they hydrogenate them, so as to serve as a preservative.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Here's one source that lends support to my points about rancidity of oils: Everything2Edited for spelling.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 05-20-2005 11:52 AM

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Rancidity is a serious concern with all unsaturated oils.
They also become quite bad for you if you eat them like that.
Rancidity occurs when the double bonds in the glyceride chains become oxidated. Keeping them cold will delay the process, but here is a better tip. Buy your oils in smaller containers, and as you use them, transfer the remainder to increasingly smaller containers so there is a minimum air space above the oil. You can't get oxidation without oxygen. I buy some expensive oils and that is what I always do.

Different oils are suited to different purposes. I am sure that Schraf could say a few things about this, but as an ardent cook myself, I can give you the basics.
Starting with olive oil, a mostly mono-unsaturated oil, you don't want to fry in it because it burns before it reaches the desired temperature.
However, it is great for sauteeing vegetables (sauteeing is a much more gentle cooking than frying), or pouring directly on a salad, because it is very light and can have wonderful aromatic properties.At the other end of the spectrum of cooking oils you have peanut oil.
The glycerides in this oil have very long, saturated carbon chains and it can be heated to very high temperatures without burning.
Thus it is the 'oil of choice' for Chinese stir-frying and such.
However, these heavier oils have less flavor of their own and are harder to digest.I have recently taken to stir-frying with grape-seed oil.
It is much lighter than peanut oil, but still heats to a good hot temperature.What ever oil you use for frying you can tell when it reaches optimum cooking temperature. You will see a whisp of smoke come of the pan. Put the food in immediately.Enjoy !

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Rancid oil does more than bite like pepper. It stings your entire throat and you feel it for a while.

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So does the best, freshest Tuscan olive oils. That's exactly the sensation one feels, sometimes so strong that it makes one cough and tear up.In fact, I have tasted olive oil that was pressed two weeks prior to being shipped under refrigeration for seven hours on a plane before it arrived at our store, and it made me cough a couple of times because it was so peppery on the back of my throat. I have even tasted brand new, just pressed oil on an estate in California that did the same thing; burning, stong, and peppery in the throat, and bitter, too. Surely you aren't suggesting that the oil is rancid straight out of the olive, are you?Remember, I am only talking about olive oil here. I have no idea what flaxseed or any other oil (other than toasted nut and seed oils) are supposed to taste like.But like I said, many people mistake a peppery olive oil for rancid oils, especially in the US. The CEO of my business tells me that 20 years ago, even specialty food retailers at fancy food shows didn't understand the peppery strong oils and thought they were rancid.There's no way to tell for sure since we only have our personal impressions to talk about, but I really think it's very likely that you are tasting olive oils which are peppery by design and not because they are rancid.You can read a few more descriptions of olive oils with big flavors
here, at my company's website.Also, here's a bit of an article on how to taste olive oil that the California Olive Oil Council has posed on their website: California Olive Oil Council

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Rancidity is often experienced as a bitter taste or as a burning sensation at the back of the throat. Good salad oils, cooking oils (I don't know about Mazola) and foods that contain oils, such as nuts and seeds, are subject to rancidity if stored for too long. Best to buy these from a store that turns over its inventory quickly.
This is also true of olive oil.........

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But that's not true about all olive oils.Some olive oils are supposed to have a bitter, peppery taste, and they taste like that right from the get go.Your source is uninformed about the variety of flavor profiles available in olive oil.I hope you will accept that I taste olive oil (and lots of other foods) professionally, buz. It's my job to be able to tell the difference between a rich, smooth oil from Ctalunia in spain and a peppery, grassy oil from Puglia, and I do it pretty well.

Tell it to Schraf. She rarely agrees with me on anything, regardless of the subject or what I say. Is there any test besides taste? What do you think about Schraf's argument that good olive oil will sting and burn the back of and the lower throat, as per the link and as per my argument? We tend to do this with all our foods, including those in zip locks. Keep the air out. Great point!

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

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She does a vast majority of the cooking in our house hold...not because she’s the women and should be feeding her man, but rather because she absolutely loves to cookand I am the happy and very grateful recipient of that love.

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Don't worry, it's the same in my family. You couldn't keep me out of the kitchen if you tried. Food is my profession, after all, but it's also my hobby. I putter around in the kitchen the same way someone paints or writes for fun.

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Having said that, let me get back to my desire for more info regarding good olive oils. Can you list specific companies or brands of olive oil that you would recommend trying?

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Well, sure.If you want to mail order some fantastic oil, you can check out Zingerman's Mail Order.Can you give me an idea, based upon my descriptions in my message to Crashfrog, what kinds of flavors appeal to you? That way, I can reccommend something you are more likely to enjoy.

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You see, my wife also spends her summers at a biological station doing her research which means two things for me. First, for about 3-4 months I do NOT get to enjoy her cooking, and second, for about 3-4 months I am on my own when it comes to preparing food (there are, of course, other things as wellbut let’s not go thereok? ). I would love to surprise her (when she comes home for a brief stay while she attends a conference in Ann Arbor) with a bottle of really nice olive oil.

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Hahaha.Ann Arbor?You should tell her to come to the Deli.Just where do you live in MI, anyway?

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Of course my intentions are two-foldand I’ll let you use your imagination as to what those two things might be (good food being only one of them). I have been told, for example, that Portuguese olive oil is really good. Of course, I was told this by a friend of ours from Portugal, so who really knows?

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There are some wonderful Portugese olive oils, to be sure, and we carry one at the moment.It's generally best to consider how you are going to use your oil, decide what kind of flavor profile you want, then choose based upon those criterion rather than country of origin. We have around 6-8 Italian oils, for example, and they range in flavor from very light and smooth to pungent and peppery, so saying "Italian oils are the best" is a very vague statement.Seriously, if you wanted to set something up with me so I have a heads up for when she will be at the Deli, I can show her around and help her out personally.I can certainly help you with choosing an olive oil in general, too.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-20-2005 07:14 PM

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Tell it to Schraf. She rarely agrees with me on anything, regardless of the subject or what I say.

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Buzsaw, I TEACH olive oil tasting classes.I am an EXPERT olive oil taster.This is what I do as my PROFESSION.I am one of the people who decides what olive oils are sold at my business, which is considered the best deli and specialty food store in the entire country by many experts in the industry.What more can I tell you?

Between the peanut oil and the monosodium glutamate, Chinese restaurants can be, I say, 'can be,' quite unhealthy places to dine. The health books warn a lot about most peanut products. I buy and love to eat raw organically grown peanuts and see no problem with them eaten that way. They can also easily be ground into delicious raw peanut butter. We recently bought our first grape-seed oil and like it very much, though good olive oil is hard to beat for some purposes. I like flaxseed oil in most anything, but wifie doesn't take to it so much unless it is mixed in stuff so as not to be noticed. It's a flavor that one must develop a taste for. We use borage oil as a food suppliment also, but don't know much about it as a food, perse.Hearty healthy cheers!

Ok, Schraf, I've been doing some further searching from what you've said and I see where you're coming from with the taste. The link I cited seems to be counter to some others on this pungency or stinging sensation in the throat. The link I cited was the only one that actually stated what rancidity in olive oil and other oils tasted like, but it is possible, I suppose, as you contend that olive oil is different. One cite actually used the term, "stingy" in good olive oil and others said, "pungent." So my apologies for being so adamant on my position and I will continue to search what I can find on this interesting subject.Peace and cheers to you as well.Edit for minor correction due to forgetting preview.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 05-20-2005 08:15 PM

OK - now I have to go to the fridge...Zamorano (a sheeps milk cheese from Castillo, Spain)
Aged bourenkaas Gouda (Holland)
Montgomerery English farmhouse cheddar (UK)
Pargmigiano reggiano (Italy) OK - that would have been a good idea. I really like strongly aromatic olive oils I have tried in Spain.
Right now I am about to open a bottle of Romanico cold pressed EV bottled in Catalonia.However, I would like to sample a bottle that you think represents one of the best Spanish oils.If you can suggest a comlimentary vinegar, I will test it in a salad dressing !

I think that would be a different 'sting' you two are talking about.
The smell of rancidity is very recognizable and not remotely desirable (and I have lousy olfaction, comparatively). I think when Schraf said 'sting' she probably meant something analogous, but not similar.

Thanks, buz.I really can be a resource for you, you know.I have no reason to lie to you.