Before the Big Bang

TheClashFanWell the big bang is doubtless a poor choice of words since the event is hardly like any explosion that you may be familiar with.
The evidence is fairly good though there is much work to do to work out the full meachanisms and likely will be for a long time. This is the question that is hotly debated and much work is going into resolving this.However the common concern is the validity of asking what happened before the BB since space and time are inextricably linked as space-time.This means that spacetime did not exist before the BB so it becomes meaningless to talk about the time concept of before since no event in the time sense occured until the BB. This is a common misconception because the something you consider us to be 'in' also is a part of the BB.Everything in the universe space-time and everything in it included did not exist before the BB but rather came into existence at the point of origin of the BB.When you look at the stars you are also looking back in time due to the speed of light being limited.Since space and time are linked together the greater the distance the farther back in time you see.When we look further back we find that the universe follows in stages from simpler{far out} to more complex{closer}as we would expect of a universe that came from this big bang.

jazzlover_PR You know nothing of the sort! You assume or place faith in such but you do not know.Without your belief that something is beyond this world your arguement falls apart and I would maintain that by this reasoning it is all in your head.

---

"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

jazzlover_PR Just to correct a mistake here we exist in a four dimensional world.Three dimension of space and one of time all linked together. Really? We can only specify the position of an airplane in flight by 4 dimensions. Since you cannot understand or see anything outside of our universe then how would you explain you assertions that a god does exist that you can neither see nor understand?

I will ask you the same question I asked of jazzlover then.What do you mean by "in our hearts"?

Hangdawg I am not the one claiming to know something my good man.However,if you wish please start a thread that we may persue the topic please do so.The admins are probably tiring of the topic drift and it is better to take this elsewhere OK?

Hangdawg13 Well that is my point exactly and the one I wish to have someone explain.Just how does he reveal himnself. It is a him right?You have seen for yourself which sex god is?Jazzlover states that he knows but how does he know? Jazzlover states that it has something to do with the heart and I wish to persue what exactly is meant by this.Perhaps we could also discuss this in another topic please?This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-20-2004 03:38 PM

jazzlover_PR I do not know what occured with the big bang and neither does anyone else.We have clues and many models some of which are better supported than others but the exact nature what occured before at the interval before planck time {10*-43sec after T=0} Big bang is the name given to it because the laws of physics require the initial state of the universe to be extremely hot{> 10*11 K}You have previously stated that god is beyond human understanding and yet you also claim to know he lives in a spiritual dimension. As with the example highlighted above you make a statement about what we cannot understand and then turn around and state that you can. This is where my confusion lies.Again we must get these discussions into another topic and discuss them there as we areagain off topic.Please do start a new post so that we may further discuss this issue OK?

TheClashFanJust be glad you picked something simple like big bang theory and not,say,loop quantum gravity or Ahranhov-Bohm Effect.We pretenders to the understanding of such levels of penetrating insight hold no candle to the people who actually originate in these fields.If you immerse yourself in these things it soon feels like jumping through Alice's looking glass.At least she found a way back out.

simple First off,Jazzlover may have whatever faith he wishes to.He is not entitled to claim to know something such as spiritual dimensions unles he can demonstrate such.Second I do not know what you are meaning by pre-big bang or the wild drug trip you refer to. Why would you be miserable? You would be,just as we all are,human, and responsible completely for your actions.There would be no blaming demons for leading you astray and no appeal for forgiveness for not living up to someone else's standard of behaviour. Really?And what do you think I place faith in? Many of us live without belief in a deity so how can it be that important? LOL.Boldly spoken lad.Now show me what you think I am coming from.

---

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

ArchArchitect Not things but a property of things known as mass. To be correct we should say mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed since the nature of mass/energy is that it is conserved in all the changes nature undergoes. So where did your creator come from?

Reserve We have not determined and you have not shown that God is eternal. You say that God had no beginning yet also state that something cannot come from nothing. Since having no beginning is equivalent to "coming from nothing" then we are shown to be observing a case of special pleading on your behalf here aren't we?Since we cannot ever reach a point in the past where God {according to your statement} did not exist then this is equivalent to saying he never existed at all. Any point in time where you can say he exists means that he has arrived there from some past point which he cannot do since we cannot show a point in time from which he could have started in order to arrive at any given point along eternity.

---

" Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!What a ride!"

ICANT I think that would depend on what the definition of spoke is in the context used.