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Author | Topic: Before the Big Bang | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
TheClashFan
Well the big bang is doubtless a poor choice of words since the event is hardly like any explosion that you may be familiar with.The evidence is fairly good though there is much work to do to work out the full meachanisms and likely will be for a long time. . Before the Big Bang, what was there? This is the question that is hotly debated and much work is going into resolving this.However the common concern is the validity of asking what happened before the BB since space and time are inextricably linked as space-time.This means that spacetime did not exist before the BB so it becomes meaningless to talk about the time concept of before since no event in the time sense occured until the BB.
Understand that I am a Creationist, and a young one, but still, it seems to me that the grouping had to be IN something before it exploded and made the universe. This is a common misconception because the something you consider us to be 'in' also is a part of the BB.Everything in the universe space-time and everything in it included did not exist before the BB but rather came into existence at the point of origin of the BB. When you look at the stars you are also looking back in time due to the speed of light being limited.Since space and time are linked together the greater the distance the farther back in time you see.When we look further back we find that the universe follows in stages from simpler{far out} to more complex{closer}as we would expect of a universe that came from this big bang.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jazzlover_PR
For creationists that believe in eternal life we know that there's another dimension thats spiritual thats outside of our space-time universe You know nothing of the sort! You assume or place faith in such but you do not know.Without your belief that something is beyond this world your arguement falls apart and I would maintain that by this reasoning it is all in your head. "Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." --Don Hirschberg
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jazzlover_PR
Remember that god's dimension is outside our 3d physical world. Just to correct a mistake here we exist in a four dimensional world.Three dimension of space and one of time all linked together.
We can never see or even begin to understand a coordinate system with more than three dimensions Really? We can only specify the position of an airplane in flight by 4 dimensions.
If God is in a 6d universe (this is just an example i'm not proclaiming that God lives in 6d world) he can see and understand coordinate systems of 2,3,4,5, and 6 dimensions but since we are limited to three we cant see or understand anything outside these three. So therefore we cant see God. Since you cannot understand or see anything outside of our universe then how would you explain you assertions that a god does exist that you can neither see nor understand?
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
I will ask you the same question I asked of jazzlover then.What do you mean by "in our hearts"?
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Hangdawg
Sidelined, how do you KNOW that we are having this conversation? If you cannot explain to me how you KNOW that we are having this converstaion, I maintain that this whole world you believe to be real is all in your "head". I am not the one claiming to know something my good man.However,if you wish please start a thread that we may persue the topic please do so.The admins are probably tiring of the topic drift and it is better to take this elsewhere OK?
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Hangdawg13
Are you still continuing with this silly argument? What do you mean by "outside" our universe when outside deals with space? Just because God has "access" to an infinite number of dimensions He wishes to create, does not mean he cannot reveal himself to us in our known dimensions. jazzlover writes: For creationists that believe in eternal life we know that there's another dimension thats spiritual thats outside of our space-time universe Well that is my point exactly and the one I wish to have someone explain.Just how does he reveal himnself. It is a him right?You have seen for yourself which sex god is?Jazzlover states that he knows but how does he know? Jazzlover states that it has something to do with the heart and I wish to persue what exactly is meant by this. Perhaps we could also discuss this in another topic please? This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-20-2004 03:38 PM
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jazzlover_PR
I know that God lives in the spiritual dimension just the same way you know the big bang happened
I do not know what occured with the big bang and neither does anyone else.We have clues and many models some of which are better supported than others but the exact nature what occured before at the interval before planck time {10*-43sec after T=0} Big bang is the name given to it because the laws of physics require the initial state of the universe to be extremely hot{> 10*11 K} You have previously stated that god is beyond human understanding and yet you also claim to know he lives in a spiritual dimension.
If God is in a 6d universe (this is just an example i'm not proclaiming that God lives in 6d world) he can see and understand coordinate systems of 2,3,4,5, and 6 dimensions but since we are limited to three we cant see or understand anything outside these three. So therefore we cant see God As with the example highlighted above you make a statement about what we cannot understand and then turn around and state that you can. This is where my confusion lies. Again we must get these discussions into another topic and discuss them there as we areagain off topic.Please do start a new post so that we may further discuss this issue OK?
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
TheClashFan
Just be glad you picked something simple like big bang theory and not,say,loop quantum gravity or Ahranhov-Bohm Effect.We pretenders to the understanding of such levels of penetrating insight hold no candle to the people who actually originate in these fields. If you immerse yourself in these things it soon feels like jumping through Alice's looking glass.At least she found a way back out.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
simple
How dare you insult someone's faith! All in your head? Try the pre big bang, or some of the wild drug trip like dreams of old age conclusions First off,Jazzlover may have whatever faith he wishes to.He is not entitled to claim to know something such as spiritual dimensions unles he can demonstrate such.Second I do not know what you are meaning by pre-big bang or the wild drug trip you refer to.
Without our belief, we would be, of all men, most miserable, but we will never be without it! Why would you be miserable? You would be,just as we all are,human, and responsible completely for your actions.There would be no blaming demons for leading you astray and no appeal for forgiveness for not living up to someone else's standard of behaviour.
You assume or place faith in evo things not proved every bit as much as believers in the Almighty do! Really?And what do you think I place faith in?
Wrong, deep down we know, it is only you who know not. Belief something is 'beyond this world'? Not at all it is an important part of creation, and this world. Many of us live without belief in a deity so how can it be that important?
Not at all it is an important part of creation, and this world. It only shows where you are really coming from, whether you admit it or not. LOL.Boldly spoken lad.Now show me what you think I am coming from. Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
ArchArchitect
Scientists say that things cannot be created nor distroyed Not things but a property of things known as mass. To be correct we should say mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed since the nature of mass/energy is that it is conserved in all the changes nature undergoes.
Something cannot come from nothing So where did your creator come from?
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Reserve
Good question, if you believe He came from somewhere. But to say God has an origin is an oxymoron (a.k.a. contradiction). This is saying God is not eternal. Therefore you stopped talking about God when you talk about His cause. Instead you started talking about a creation event instead of the Eternal Creator. We have not determined and you have not shown that God is eternal. You say that God had no beginning yet also state that something cannot come from nothing. Since having no beginning is equivalent to "coming from nothing" then we are shown to be observing a case of special pleading on your behalf here aren't we? Since we cannot ever reach a point in the past where God {according to your statement} did not exist then this is equivalent to saying he never existed at all. Any point in time where you can say he exists means that he has arrived there from some past point which he cannot do since we cannot show a point in time from which he could have started in order to arrive at any given point along eternity. " Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!What a ride!"
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
ICANT
In other words God could have spoke everything into existence and everything in the universe I think that would depend on what the definition of spoke is in the context used.
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