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Author | Topic: The Whole Jesus Thing | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Yaro Member (Idle past 6527 days) Posts: 1797 Joined: |
The real gift here is the way salvation is now obtained. Before the sacrifice, the only way you could get into heaven was following very very strict guidelines and rules which by the way many people coudnt follow(holliness is no piece of cake). Before the scrifice the only way for obtaining forgiveness of sins was through the secrifice of certain animals (if this applied today, the animal rights groups would have us go to jail. Asking god for forgiveness would be a crime). We now have the gift of being able to ask for forgiveness without killing animals and we can go directly into God's presence with a little humility and an honest heart. And now salvation is obtained by maintaning a personal relationship with God where forgiveness is the center of salvation not perfection like in the old testament days. Heheh, salvation 2.0 ehh Ya, I understand the idea. It still dosn't make sense to me tho. One of the strict rules you were supposed to follow for example was sacrifice of animals etc. Why on earth would God want a dead lamb? It's just silly. It seems, for a god that loves us so much, he is going thrugh such trouble to make things complicated. If he took our punishment for us, then certainly that's all it took. We are all forgiven period. No need to "accept Jesus", his death already dealt with that. Furthermore, why bother turning into a man at all? Just snap your fingers and wipe away sins. Easy no? See, I even came up with a better solution!
He didnt. The romans did that. So, if I ran out onto the highway and got run over by a truck, did I kill myself or the truck? God killd himself, he knew full well he was coming down to die. He killd himself. If I shoot myself in the head, did I kill myself or the bullet? Get it?
I dont know what apease means (english is not my first language). Apease in this context means something like: Satisfies his anger.
His sacrifice delivers a messege of perseverance. He demostrated with his sacrifice that beating the desires of our flesh is possible. He didn't sacrifice anything tho, he's God! Sacrifice implies that something is lost in the process, God didn't lose anything. He knew going up to the cross he was gonna rise again. Where is the sacrifice? It's like superman, you know hes gonna win anyway, so why bother with all the extra drama?
Jesus didnt want to be crucified. He asked the father to release him from his duty but he sacrificed himself to do what was right. This implies that Jesus was A) not god or B) god talking to himself.In case of A I have no argument, Jesus was not god. In case of B you got God PRETENDING to talk to himself and PRETENDING to be scared etc. Because he will never go over man's right to decide what man really wants. God wants you to accept him out of free will and to live by his standards by your own free will without making you be anything. So, why judgement? Why punishment? Removing the whole "accept Jesus" thing means we all go to heaven right? I mean, that was the purpose of the sacrfice, to wash it all away. So why the extra clause?
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hey, I think the way the writers of the New Testament distort and lie about the Tankah is horrendous. Got to keep them honest.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I notice that the words attributed to Jesus specifically does not mention the Kthuvim...
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tsig Member (Idle past 2939 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Good point, but aren't the two the same? I make a sacrifice of myself for my children (figuratively speaking), God made a sacrifice for His children How do you make a sacrifice of yourself for your children?
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tsig Member (Idle past 2939 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
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You did't answer the question. The question is are you going to cough up $50.00 dollars because I saw your lawn needed mowing and decided to do it. Me for one! Why anyone should die for what others do? Let me ask you the same question though in slightly different terms. If you came home from church on sunday and I was standing there in front on your newly mowed yard and demanded payment, would you pay me? If that happemed would you thank the person that mowed your yard? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I didn't answer it because that question has nothing to do with the Jesus question.
Christ died for all men. It was a gift freely given and you are not asked to pay $50.00. In fact, you are not even asked to say thanks. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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tsig Member (Idle past 2939 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
didn't answer it because that question has nothing to do with the Jesus question. Why of course you are, ever read every knee will bow?
Christ died for all men. It was a gift freely given and you are not asked to pay $50.00. In fact, you are not even asked to say thanks.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
I notice that the words attributed to Jesus specifically does not mention the Kthuvim... yes, i posted about this earlier today in two other threads i think.
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tsig Member (Idle past 2939 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
didn't answer it because that question has nothing to do with the Jesus question. I just came to your house and installed a $5,000 dollar heating system in your home because I determined your old one is deficient.Christ died for all men. It was a gift freely given and you are not asked to pay $50.00. In fact, you are not even asked to say thanks. Will you pay.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, not really.
If you check my postings here you'll find that I don't subscribe to such posturing. It's pretty silly IMHO. Christ died and rose again as an indication, an affirmation, that his death was full and sufficient sacrifice and oblation for the sins of the world. It was a passion, played out in the idiom of the day. It was a gift, freely given for all mankind, believer and non-believer. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Was it, like Jesus' death, a gift freely given?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
5 grand is a fairly significant sacrifice though.
what does christianity demand? how does believing equate to a sacrifice in any way? (this question is double-edged, btw. if it's NOT a sacrifice, how is it a meaningful atonement for sins?)
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Then you cannot really be true to your faith - becuase if you were, you would know that those worshippers of false goods are either badly mistaken or seduced by Satan, and furthermore that they are inducting their children into these "false" religions. Any claim to absolute truth necessarily precludes acceptance of any other claim to absolute truth.
quote: No, it is not. Because all belief systems produce actions based on those on those belief systems. And seeing as all options carry opoprtunity costs, and echo across the social fabric, it is imperative that we understand what we are doing and why we are doing it so we can make rational decisions. It is not adequate to hold a position and be unable to justify why this position is correct.
quote: It's "ok" in a very airy-fairy, unrealistic, abstractly idealistic sense. I do acknowledge your different point of view, but I do not have to take your point of view seriously if you yourself cannot justify the position you yourself hold.
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Angel Inactive Member |
quote:And I would have to say that technically you are absolutely correct. I was speaking generally, and explained what it meant to me though. Angel
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Angel Inactive Member |
ramoss,
Though I agree that Jesus was not God in the flesh, you quoted: quote:I do not put faith in any son of man, Jesus is the Son of God. Makes a difference. Angel
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