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Author | Topic: The Whole Jesus Thing | |||||||||||||||||||||||
contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: And yet, millions of others know you are both wrong for reading the bible and not the Koran, andother millions think you should maybe look at the really existing world rather than some dusty tome. In other words, that is not an answer. If you calim that you can see it in the text, it is not enough to merely assert that: if you cannot explkain how you come to your conclusion nobody has any reason to take your assertion seriously.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Then you cannot really be true to your faith - becuase if you were, you would know that those worshippers of false goods are either badly mistaken or seduced by Satan, and furthermore that they are inducting their children into these "false" religions. Any claim to absolute truth necessarily precludes acceptance of any other claim to absolute truth.
quote: No, it is not. Because all belief systems produce actions based on those on those belief systems. And seeing as all options carry opoprtunity costs, and echo across the social fabric, it is imperative that we understand what we are doing and why we are doing it so we can make rational decisions. It is not adequate to hold a position and be unable to justify why this position is correct.
quote: It's "ok" in a very airy-fairy, unrealistic, abstractly idealistic sense. I do acknowledge your different point of view, but I do not have to take your point of view seriously if you yourself cannot justify the position you yourself hold.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: None of that arises from my question. I have made no claims to infallibility, not least because I have no pretensions to divinity.
quote: Who? Is that the dude who comes along and replaces kids teeth under their pillows with quarters, or the dude in the red and yellow leathers who smote vampires? The fact that you believe something is fundamentally unimportant. It dosn't matter. The universe is utterly oblivious to your petty human conceits. YOUR BELIEF is not in question, the BASIS of your belief is in question - and you openly admit that you cannot justify it. Therefore, it's rubbish.
quote: It is certainly true as far as social policy is concerned, and it is certainly true where analysis of the real physical world is concerned. The specific position on god is besides the point, because 99% of modern theists recognise the validity of fact-checking and methodical analysis. Most theists check both ways before crossing roads rather than relying on gods guardianship, for example. And it is only in the special exception of the nature of god that theists abandon this rationalist mindset and go about asserting nonsense which they cannot even explain satisfactorily to themselves. And therefore I ask: if self-confessed theists cannot advance a cogent argument for their theism, why should they or their argument be taken seriously? I can and will preference arguments that are rational, contain evidence, and discuss really existing features of the world over argumnts that deliberately avoid such.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Identification of moral fault. Having established blame, the respondant feels justified in evading the point. This demonstrates yet again that religion uses morality for socially manipulative purposes, as a stalking horse to conceal its ignorance and lies.
quote: I do not need to disprove god, becuase I am not the one claiming god exists. I cannot prove a negative. What I can say, however, is that there is no reason anywhere to believe in god any more than there is to believe in the tooth fairy. After all, the information we have about the tooth fairy is identical to that for god - rumour. Seeing as you will not or can not advance the slightest argument in support of your claims, I can legitimately dismiss them. Seeing as I can and will advance arguments in support of my claims, you cannot legitimately dismiss them. My claims are methodologically superior to yours, quite regardless of what either of us believe.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Some advice you should take to heart, I suspect.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: I think it was Clarke, but it might have been Asimov, who said that when a white-haired old scientist tells you that something is possible, you should probably believe them, but when they say something is impossible, you probably shoult not. It's impossible to know that something will never, ever, be achieved in the future. By contrast, kniowing that something CAN be done can be certainly known.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: No, it does not, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly and at great length. Science is not driven by faith, it is driven by knowledge. I'd thank you to take this theistic arrogance and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
You tell me, Dawg - it was your claim.
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