I want one good reason that being gay is ok

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7. Since the beginning of history, homosexuality has been considered an un-natural and dispicable lifestyle by the public in general.

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Excerpts from Native American PerspectiveObviously, not every culture considers homosexuality to be unnatural or detestable.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Suicide Reference LibraryFrom what I could find, suicide was illegal but that has apparently been changed. It is illegal to assist or coerce someone in suicide.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

You want someone to show you that homosexuality is O.K. or correct.
The big question is O.K. to whom?In our present culture:To the best of my knowledge, homosexuality is not illegal in the United States. Laws also prohibit discrimination based on sexual preferences.
So legally homosexuality is O.K.When it comes to reproduction, homosexuality is a natural anomaly (departure from the normal form, order or rule). To the best of my knowledge, it is not illegal in the United States to abstain from reproduction or to live a lifestyle that is not condusive to reproduction. Many heterosexuals are also unable to reproduce. Another natural anomaly. Considering the human population of the world, I don't think the lack of reproduction is going to eliminate our species.
So it is O.K. not to reproduce.From my limited knowledge, I don't think the sexual acts that homosexuals engage in differ greatly from the various "acts" done by heterosexuals.
So the sexual acts themselves are O.K.Per your own statement:

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Its the act I do not think is ok not the person doing it.

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you don't have a problem with the person.The "act" is not something you have to approve of to respect the person.We all have personal likes and dislikes, but these should not stop us from respecting the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit within the laws of our society.I didn't mention religion, because you said you disapproved before believing in God. But even if your religion is against the homosexual act, the laws of our society require that you still respect the persons rights; whether your religion does or not.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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So if suicide was leagal, would it still be good, even if it doesn't hurt anybody else?
Whats your point?

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In Message 54 you state that suicide is illegal:

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Yes it is, and it makes my point that what doesn't hurt anyone else its ok theory is invalid.

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So within the legal system it is O.K.Beyond that you get into personal and/or religious opinions.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

There is no perfect legal system. You can't please everybody. So there will always be someone who considers the law to be flawed.Since you don't accept the legal system as an answer, no one can give you a "good" reason to feel that homosexuality is acceptable. Doesn't sound like you really wanted to be convinced anyway. Whether something is good or not is subjective and may or may not have anything to do with facts. Just personal preference.

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The sexual acts that you describe that are done by heterosexuals, I do not approve of eother, so that doesn't make itok either.

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Seems there are heterosexual acts you don't approve of either, so why look for a reason that homosexual sex is O.K.? How do you treat heterosexuals that perform the "unacceptable" sexual acts? Do you really want the legal system to get involved in dictating our sex lives and personal relationships?????

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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Well, they can't marry either! Right?

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That would be my guess. If you can't do "it" right, you can't get married.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I can definitely understand why porcupines would be illegal. OW!! The ever popular missionary position. I find it interesting that nineteenth century missionaries decreed that the only natural position for men and women to have sex was with the man on top. They considered other sexual positions to be animalistic and were frowned upon by religious groups.I get the impression that some religious groups don't really know what natural really means.
Seems that whatever offends their sensibilities is unnatural.I wonder if believing in a God is truly natural.Anyway, I'm off on a vacation. No computer for over a week.
Have a great July!

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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i always had the impression it meant being of nature. so the way animals do it = natural.

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I just got back off vacation. Alaska was beautiful!!!Anyway, I listened to a Christian speaker a few days ago and his talk made me think of this discussion. He said that natural is to do what comes naturally, but that God doesn't want us to do what comes naturally.So if Christians consider homosexuality to be unnatural, then they aren't doing what comes naturally, so homosexuality should be acceptable. Wouldn't you think?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Where does God say men are not to spill or waste sperm?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

I wondered if that was the story. So really the man was punished for disobedience as opposed to spillage. Spillage was just the means by which he carried out his disobedience.If that is it, then God didn't make any specific ruling on spillage. It's just extrapolation by men.Interesting.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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Well, by your logic, you shouldn't have had sex since you were saved, because that would involve "spilling of seed", and thus not have "moral purpose".

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Doesn't a vascectomy stop the flow of seed? So he has nothing to spill, it is blocked.Does God have a problem with "seed blockage" as opposed to "spillage"?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Sexual desires and sexual intercourse are natural biological functions. Just like hunger and eating. (Yes I know you can't die from not having sex. Not the point.)Abstaining from sex is more unnatural than having sex. Just like purposely abstaining from food is unnatural.My guess is that sex (all varieties) existed before religion.It existed before the large civilizations.The nature of sex hasn't changed. Mankind's rules and views concerning sex have. Cultures/individuals vary in their ideas of what is OK and not OK. As you've been shown, some cultures have no problem with homosexuals.Just like Genesis 38. Brother-in-law impregnating sister-in-law to give his dead brother an heir. Oh ick! Then the job goes to father-in-law if the others fail. Double oh ick! (Really glad they got over that) As you can see love is not a factor in this scenerio. Different culture, different rules than today.Our culture has worked to eliminate discrimination and bring equality to our diverse culture.I am more concerned about the vanishing farmland and the lack of nutrition in commercial/processed foods (which feed my natural hunger pains), than I am about what two consenting men/women do in their home or flirtations on the street (which has nothing to do with my personal survival).My daughter once asked me why some people picked on other people for being different. (In this case some girls were picking on another girl for being fat.) I told her that IMO even if we had a society where everyone was exactly the same size, shape, and color; someone would find a reason to harrass someone else. Whether clothes, money, thoughts etc.I find it interesting that Christians tout that God gave us free will because he wouldn't want robots, and yet, they feel that everyone should have blind faith without reason. Isn't that a robot?Life is too short to worry about someone elses sex life.Bottom line: This is why being gay is OK in our secular culture. Declaration of IndependenceThe Constitution PreambleAs you've shown in this thread, no one can say anything to make you personally accept homosexuality or apparently many other sex acts as OK. That is YOUR personal preference. If you enjoy your gay friends' company then enjoy their company.As I said before, the "act" is not something you have to approve of to respect the person.
Message 148Respecting a person includes respecting their right to happiness (within the law) per their preferences, not yours.Allowing same-sex civil marriages does not take away any "rights" that are currently available in civil or religious marriages of heterosexuals. I'm baffled as to your purpose in starting this thread since you apparently had no intention of accepting homosexuality as OK.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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Therefore your comment is unnacceptable;

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RiverRat didn't want justification from a religious standpoint. He already knows what his religion says.

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Therefore, sex is not needful

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Just for reproduction and continuance of the species. If you believe that God created nature then why wouldn't nature be justification?

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My statement: I find it interesting that Christians tout that God gave us free will because he wouldn't want robots, and yet, they feel that everyone should have blind faith without reason. Isn't that a robot?

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There was a question at the end of that.
Doesn't a robot do what it is told without reasoning?

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Now lust leads to many evil things; rape, serial killers etc..Now all this is because you cannot fight a natural urge.

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I could die from lack of surprise!Do you consider rapists or serial killers to be mentally stable people who just had a major lust overload and went amuck?I considered this thread to be dealing with mentally stable people who have a different sexual preference. I don't believe that rapists, serial killers, etc. are considered to be mentally stable people.Because we live in a civilization, any natural urge we follow has to stay within the laws of our civilization. Homosexuality is not in the same ballpark as rape or serial killing, so stop going there, it isn't a viable argument!Are rape and serial killing truly natural or a product of civilization?
Do animals kill just for the sake of killing or is it for the purpose of food and self defense?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.