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Author Topic:   Need some serious Help, is Love Real?
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 7 of 15 (239983)
09-02-2005 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wolf
09-02-2005 12:46 PM


It's a reproducible, observable emotional state.
Yu know you love your wife. I know I love my girlfriend. Billions of people feel the emotion, and it has observable effects on behavior. Emotions cross all boundaries of culture, race, and religion.
Neurology has been studying emotion in the brain for some time.
quote:
Most inquiries into the hemispheric lateralization of emotions in humans have been based on the distribution of primary emotions and their associated display behaviors. The concept of primary emotions evolved from the work of Darwin who suggested that certain emotions have as their substrate an innate neural basis since they are universally expressed and understood across cultures. The experiential aspects of primary emotions, which include anger, fear, panic, sadness, surprise, interest, happiness (ecstasy), and disgust, have been linked functionally to the temporal limbic regions.
Although some investigators have emphasized the special role of the right hemisphere in the regulation of all emotions -- the Right Hemisphere Hypothesis, others have suggested a Valence Hypothesis with negative and unpleasant types of emotions and related displays lateralized to the right and positive emotions and displays lateralized to the left hemisphere. Psychosocial data that are not yet well appreciated clinically provide a broader perspective of emotional behavior that embraces the idea that emotions and their displays have both primary and social properties. The data are usually derived from assessing the impact of social situations on the expressivity of primary emotional displays in normal subjects. It has also been suggested that certain types of emotions should be categorized under the term "social" to distinguish them from primary emotions.
Social emotions are thought to derive biologically from attachment. Buck has argued that inherent to attachment are two distinct social motives: 1) to gain approval by meeting or exceeding the expectations of others and 2) to gain affection, such as love or admiration. Success or failure in meeting social expectations may result in a person experiencing pride versus embarrassment or guilt whereas success or failure in gaining affection may result in joy or euphoria versus shame. If a peer or comparison person succeeds or fails in meeting social expectations or gaining affection, emotions such as envy versus pity or jealousy versus scorn may be experienced. Thus, social emotions have both positive and negative valences as do primary emotions. Primary emotions, however, have a predominantly negative bias. Although social emotions have a more balanced distribution of valence, in most formal situations positive emotional displays, such as cheerfulness or attentiveness, are expected in keeping with social "display rules", a term first coined by Ekman and Friesen. Implicit in the existence of display rules is that the emotional expressions of normal individuals may, at times, be at variance with their true internal feeling states.
A small bit from this rather long paper about the neurological basis of emotion. Experimentation shows that emotional states are real, and are characterized by physical changes in the brain.
God, however, leaves no evidence of His existance, and provides noe for us to reproducibly test. Those of us who have had religious and supernatural experiences cannot reproduce them for others, and God is apparently no longer in the practive of calling down fire from Heaven upon request. No experimentation can be done to prove the existance of God.
SInce ID and Creationism do not describe a mechanism, do not produce predictions, and are not falsifiable, they are not science. Neurology (and by extension theories involving "love") describes the mechanism by which humans feel emotion, predicts that there should be changes in the brain during different emotional states, and is falsifiable if those predictions do not hold true. Love is a scientifically observed phenomenon described by the science of neurology.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wolf, posted 09-02-2005 12:46 PM Wolf has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 11 of 15 (240023)
09-02-2005 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by randman
09-02-2005 2:34 PM


Re: I suspect...
Based on this evidence that one could claim science proves God is real because neuroligical pathways are stimulated during religious experience.
You sorely tempt me to say things that will get me suspended.
You are obviously wrong.
The fact that neurological pathways are stimulated during a religious experience only proves that the subjects feel like they are having a religious experience. Religious experiences in experiments of this nature have produced a wide variety of results, including visions of various deities, as well as nothing at all other than a "feeling."
Here is an article you may find relevant. Note that the subjects had religious experiences related to what they already believed, up to the atheist having no "visions" at all.
When neurologists test the pathways that represent fear and aggression, and the subjects display abject terror or feelings of extreme violence, does this prove that there is a horrible monster in the room to be afraid of? Of course not! It proves only that the feeling exists, nothing more.
No, science has not proven Love is real and cannot prove it. Maybe they can claim to prove that a possible fantasy called love is real.
Because love is an emotion, proof that such a feeling exists proves that love exists. Your way of thinking seems to suggest that "love" is an external entity, like a Cupid. Science has proven that there is an emotion called "love," and have quantified examples of its effect on the brain.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by randman, posted 09-02-2005 2:34 PM randman has not replied

  
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