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Author Topic:   Need some serious Help, is Love Real?
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1428 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 13 of 15 (240058)
09-02-2005 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by dsv
09-02-2005 1:32 PM


I don't get it
What is "love" here?
Damasio separates between emotions (summarily unlearned behaviors associated with specific situations) and feelings (what it FEELS like when you emote).
Wolf, are you asking about "love" the emotion or "love" the feeling?
Everybody here is answering your question about "love" the EMOTION. I don't think your wife is asking about that at all. She's asking about love the FEELING.
And that's not something that can (currently) be proven. That's the "hard problem" (I think this is David Chalmers' phrase) of cognition, and we don't have a handle on it.
Ben
AbE: dsv, I wrote this as a reply to you, but it turned more into a "general reply." So if you're confused why I chose to reply directly to your post... yeah, it turned out weird. Sorry about that.
This message has been edited by Farva, Friday, 2005/09/02 03:32 PM

I don't want a large Farva, I want a goddamn liter-a-cola.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by dsv, posted 09-02-2005 1:32 PM dsv has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by dsv, posted 09-02-2005 7:10 PM Ben! has replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1428 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 15 of 15 (240075)
09-02-2005 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dsv
09-02-2005 7:10 PM


Re: I don't get it
DSV,
Thanks for the info... kind of. I kind of feel like you ignored what I was saying.
Do you know what I mean by Chalmer's "hard problem", or how / why Damasio separates emotion and feeling? The points you addressed didn't seem to mention these things at all.
At the primitive level we're talking about reproduction and biologically implanted family bonds, just like hunger. Most of the behavior associated behavior of love has nothing to do with neuroscience and everything to do with culture. Certainly love is expressed differently around the world.
So back to the beginning, what we measure is the reaction of the brain in "love" situations. This proves that this activity is happening and that the subject does have an observable and verifiably different reaction to people he/she loves to those he/she does not.
Nothing personal, but I'm quite sure if you said this to Wolf's wife, she's call it bullcrap.
She's talking about a feeling. Not behavior. Not "love-type situations". You're talking like a scientist, and limiting things to the observables.
Love is also a feeling. Feelings are inaccessible to observation. We can observe physical manifestations which correlate with subject's self-reports of feelings.
That's Chalmer's hard problem. Explaining experience itself. Why does it feel like ANYTHING?
I doubt you're going to agree to this. But I'll put it out there once at least.
Peace man.
Ben

This message is a reply to:
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