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Author Topic:   The Chicken And Egg Problem, this problem refers to all species
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5185 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 9 of 43 (207073)
05-11-2005 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nitai
05-11-2005 4:52 AM


Eggs before chickens if taken literally
If the problem is considered specifically w/r/t 'chickens', then
eggs were a form of reproduction in many lineages long before anything even looked like a chicken.
The first 'chicken' would have had to hatch from some 'proto-chicken' egg, and therefore the egg would have come first.
If the problem is considered more figuratively, with the chicken representing higher organisms in some general way, then the 'chicken' would have come first, simply because egg laying is a highly-evolved form of sexual reproduction (oogamy) that evolved through various intermediate stages of anisogamy (fusion of gametes of unequal size).
The ancestral state of sexuality in multicellular organisms is isogamy (gametes of equal size fuse) - there is no overt sexual differentiation in such species - only '+' and '-' mating types.
Here is a good reference on the evolution of sexuality written by one of my former advisors some years ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Nitai, posted 05-11-2005 4:52 AM Nitai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Nitai, posted 05-11-2005 1:26 PM EZscience has replied

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5185 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 13 of 43 (207172)
05-11-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Nitai
05-11-2005 1:26 PM


Re: Eggs before chickens if taken literally
If you don't like my reasoning, you can try Zhang's.
Click here and scroll down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Nitai, posted 05-11-2005 1:26 PM Nitai has not replied

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5185 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 43 of 43 (208343)
05-15-2005 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by RAZD
05-13-2005 8:59 PM


The evolution of oogamy
Since RazD has raised a question of some actual consequence,
I am lured back into this thread.
An 'egg' in the strict biological sense, is a single germ cell with the capacity to give rise to an embryo.
However, with the exception of mammals and a few fish where development is nurtured internally by the female, the egg also contains all the resources necessary for embryological development of an entire new multicellular organism.
The biological condition of egg production is termed 'oogamy'.
It doesn't matter whether it is sexually or asexually produced, but it must contain sufficient resources for completed embrylogical development if it is laid freely in the environment, so many other forms of dispersed propagule (say a fungal spore) do not qualify because they require external inputs of energy for developmenting into a multicelluar organism.
However, I would contend that the evolution of the egg was contingent on the evolution of sexual reproduction first, even though some lineages secondarily lost sexuality and evolved eggs that could develop successfully without fertilization.
The evolution of sexuality probably began with the fusion of gametes of equal size (isogamy), but the emergence of the 'male' stragey of producing the smallest possible gametes resulted in the countering 'female' strategy of investing sufficient resources in each to ensure the survival of the zygote, regardless of the sperm containing virtually zero resources.
As I stated in another thread:
EZ writes:
Ever since the strategy of "maleness" evolved... it has been one of "produce the most gametes possible with the least investment in each". This enables the production of more and more gametes by putting fewer and fewer resources in each. While this might seem like a form of genetic parasitism (it is), it cannot displace the female strategy because really small gamates must fuse with a large one to produce a viable zygote. So we must keep in mind that the success of males in producing "cheap sperm" was also the driving force behind the evolution of truly female characters - few large eggs with all the cytoplasmic resources necesssary for embryo development.

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