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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   The First Questions In The Bible
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3627 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 133 of 161 (419119)
09-01-2007 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Rob
09-01-2007 2:07 AM


the species that asks
Rob:
Why?
What are we looking for?
And what were we questioning?
We question because that leads to the gathering of information, formation of concepts, and gaining of understanding.
This ability has been our strong suit as a species.
It wasn't our flying ability, that's for sure. But notice that, through our ability to ask questions and come to understandings, we can now fly higher and faster than any bird.
It serves us well. So we keep doing it. As a species it is 'that thing we do.'
Birds fly. We ask.
Why would a human being think of doing something that He (or she) doesn't need or want to think about in the first place (ie. what your brother tastes like skined and fried in oil)?
I wasn't thinking about that. You were, though, so you can tell us.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 2:07 AM Rob has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3627 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 134 of 161 (419120)
09-01-2007 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by CK
08-24-2007 4:26 PM


oldies but goodies
CK:
When God creates the universe - he knows every action in the universe upon til the end of the universe before he creates it. Therefore any actions in the universe are a direct result of the how god created the universe and therefore there is no freewill and no actions occur that are not a direct result of how he creates the universe. Well unless he makes the creation event random and does not know how it will all turn out until he creates it but if he does not know how it will all turn out then he is not god and did not create the universe.
In short - it's a made-up story.
Welcome back, CK. Good to find you here.
A similar situation, interestingly enough, appears in Wagner's retelling of the Icelandic Ring saga. In order to achieve certain goals that are important to him the chief god, Wotan, needs to sire a free agent that will act in complete independence of his control. The catch is that, in allowing this free agent to exist, he really does have to surrender control. Wotan has to give up on the idea that the goals he values will ever be achieved at all.
It's also a made-up story.
___

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by CK, posted 08-24-2007 4:26 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 10:43 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3627 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 138 of 161 (419159)
09-01-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Rob
09-01-2007 10:43 AM


Re: oldies but goodies
I wrote:
The catch is that, in allowing this free agent to exist, he really does have to surrender control.
Rob writes:
You're quite right. And as a species, we've done well with our freedom haven't we?
I wasn't aware that you were a disciple of Wotan's.
In the mean time, he allows you to listen to whichever spirits you want to listen to.
You're responsible for your own choices, unless you give Him back, His responsibility as God of your life.
I'm not a follower of Wotan's but thanks for sharing.
You might not want to mention your new religion to your church friends, though. Some of those people think it's a good idea to annihilate pagans like you. Keeps the 'total organism healthy' or some such rot.
Give my best to Fasolt and Fafner.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 10:43 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 12:25 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3627 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 142 of 161 (419199)
09-01-2007 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Rob
09-01-2007 12:25 PM


Re: oldies but goodies
Rob:
You were the one drawing the parralels. Did you want to address the concepts, or do you wish to haggle over the names we give them?
I wanted to draw the parallels.
Until you're familiar with the Wotan story we can't discuss the concepts.
It's interesting to see, though, that 'haggles over names' are such a small matter to you now. A few days ago you defended genocide in the cause of just such 'haggles over names.'
Evidence of evolution? Perhaps.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 12:25 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 2:00 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
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