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Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days) Posts: 21 From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Old Laws Still Valid? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So this must mean that your personal morality is a bad source of laws. This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy. Not even up to platitude standards, but almost Jabberwocky. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Not even up to platitude standards, but almost Jabberwocky. Flush. Spray. As usual.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Flush. Spray. As usual. Frustrating isn't it? In jar's defense, you didn't say it very well (an edit might be good), but the point was clear. And it doesn't matter. Even if you spell it out in the clearest terms and with m-a-t-h-e-m-a-t-i-c-a-l___p-r-e-c-i-s-i-o-n... he just waves his hands and wishes it away. Poof! Just like that! There ought to be a Law! Edited by scottness, : No reason given. If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, when someone posts a ludicrous message like ...
So this must mean that your personal morality is a bad source of laws. This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy. ... how can you expect much more of an answer. Of course my personal morality is not a good source for laws. The second sentence though is just plain stupid. The sentence "This must mean that your personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws is ALSO not trustworthy." is utterly meaningless, in addition to simply being inaccurate it is but a collection of words strung together to give the impression to the ignorant that there is any meaning hidden in there. First, it is not my personal morality that morality is a bad source of laws. It is my personal opinion. Second, stating that I hold a particular opinion says absolutely nothing about whether or not it is trustworthy. I had tried to be easy on you by not going into the details but since you did not take the hint, your post was just plain dumb. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Romans 7:12? As someone said below... more platitudes. You think he comes from below? That's not very nice! Those posts are from the top on my screen.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
What law? The "law of sin and death." The soul who sins will die.
Call grace and truth more platitudes if you will, but Jesus Christ is the only ONE who can deliver you from the "law of sin and death" and save you from your sins. The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5945 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul writes:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.Hebrew 1 Paul writes: In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The use of "we" and "these last days" above is hard to reconcile. The NT tells us that both Paul and Jesus, expected the end times to be within their generation. There many other quotes where it is written that Jesus taught of the end times within the current generation and that "there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Kingdom of God come". They believed that the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of their contemporaries. This explains why Paul would tell his followers "it is good for a man not to touch a women" but if you have to "it is better to marry than to burn". Telling people that it is weak to procreate is not a good way to propagate a religion ideology for generations to come, since most people settle into the religion of their fathers.
jayhill writes: If Paul believed he was living in the "last days" then why does he tell his co-worker about the "last days" which "will come"? The phrase "will come" certainly does not exclude the current generation. Edited by iceage, : No reason given. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
iceage writes: The use of "we" and "these last days" above is hard to reconcile. I am not trying to take sides, but in this passage it sounds possibly that 'last days' could mean 'recent days' just as well. Where are our scholars?!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What law? The "law of sin and death." The soul who sins will die. Call grace and truth more platitudes if you will, but Jesus Christ is the only ONE who can deliver you from the "law of sin and death" and save you from your sins. More nonsense and totally irrelevant babble. Getting saved from sins has nothing to do with the topic. In case you have forgotten the topic is "Old Laws Still Valid?" In Message 96 there is a list of some of the old laws. If you would like to make a case for why they should still be valid please do so, but stop bringing up unrelated irrelevant babble to try to move the goal posts. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5945 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
it sounds possibly that 'last days' could mean 'recent days' "Last days" and "recent days" is a very significant difference. Not one translation I am aware of use the meaning of 'recent days' or 'just lately'. It really does not fit with the chapter. Why would a godly inspired work be so unclear on a very important point?
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
iceage writes: Why would a godly inspired work be so unclear on a very important point? Now that I can't answer. Maybe it was just some uninspired musings of Paul. But regardless of translations, I think it is possible to say 'I have had a headache these last days' and not mean the end of the world is coming. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5945 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Sounds awkward
anastasia writes: I have had a headache these last days If someone I knew used this phase I would be alarmed at their possible mental state. Nevertheless Paul uses the term "last days" often to refer to the end times. I am trusting the translators got it right as there is no disagreement in any translation as to the meaning. Also there are other quotes of Paul referring to the end within his generation such as the quoted "then we which are alive".
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scottness writes: So who should I believe? You? Or the Apostle paul? Frankly, I couldn't care less what you believe. I'm just trying to expose some of your most egregious errors so that people who are capable of reason can make up their own minds. I have quoted what Jesus said. If you choose to reject Jesus in favour of a misinterpreation of Paul, that's your lookout.
Do you think this means that if I love myself by indulging in the pleasures of life, that I fulfill the law by sharing those indulgences with others? Is that what you're suggesting? Yes.
So Ringo, as Jesus said, 'Do this, and you will live.' If you think you can do that, then you're a better man than I. Don't be so hard on yourself. Doing something is the easiest thing in the world. Deciding what to do is not always easy, since morality is so relative. Sometimes you will screw up and sometimes you won't. But the only wrong approach is to sit in your ivory tower and do nothing.
I don't even deserve to be in your presence! I agree, but I'm not an admin.
That's the whole message I'm afraid... that reality is perfect.... If you think that's the "whole" message, or any part of the message, you have good reason to be afraid. Reality is far from perfect.
... if you want an excuse to live whatever lifestyle that suits you, then the Bible is not your friend. That's the opposite of what I've been saying. I've been saying that we have to live whatever lifestyle suits our neighbour as well as ourselves. And I was quoting Jesus when I said it. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
You said:
Reality is far from perfect. Ringo, let's step back and forget whatever beliefs we may have about reality and what it is, or what it is not. Whatever reality is, it exists, and most importantly, for sake of this thread, reality and it's Laws are all there is in the totality of things. If logic is valid (if reason is valid), reality cannot be other than perfect, just the way it is. And again, in light of the topic, it is my deep conviction that any deviation (in the slightest) from that reality and it's laws is implicitly unlawful and therefore justifiable only by supporting the validity of illogical thinking in deference to one's present passions. Real passion and energy come from a relationship with our sensible, exquisite, and rational creator and being in unity with His Laws. You said: Frankly, I couldn't care less what you believe. Well that's a problem isn't it? I do care what you believe because you are of essential worth and made in the image of God. The thoughts in your mind were never meant to be the operating system for your soul. You can choose another one. You were created to be glorious and free within the law, not a prisoner to blindness and sin. Law is order. And order can be built layer upon layer without limit. Life is built on laws and order. It reveals the capacity for information to become so richly expressed that this whole universe becomes real and far from mundane. Law and order is free to do all that is right and legitimate. It is not about withholding pleasure from the creature, but bringing true pleasure by the act's harmony with the right time for that pleasure. To do otherwise is contradiction, conflict, death, and delusion. Mark 3:26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 2Th 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Your body is God's temple, not the house of serpents who oppose themselves. John 2:19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." You were created to walk in the Law. But no one can do that without the One Spirit that knows the way to guide them because He is the law.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
scottness writes: If logic is valid (if reason is valid), reality cannot be other than perfect, just the way it is. Silly. And off-topic.
You were created to walk in the Law. But no one can do that without the One Spirit that knows the way to guide them because He is the law. I quoted what He said about the law. Respond to that. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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