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Author Topic:   Could this really have happened?
Teets_Creationist
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 159 (318303)
06-06-2006 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
06-05-2006 6:21 PM


This DID really happen! And does.
This is a classic example of TRYING to find something wrong. That's shown true in your very first statement, "What I am looking for are a few examples from the Bible of narratives that don’t quite sound plausible." Well, I guess in your own mind, you may have found them, but you're asking the wrong questions. I guess what you should be doing, is looking at the government officials alive NOW, and wondering, "Why aren't they any smarter now, then they were during the Bible times?" After all, they have such great examples of what NOT to do. It is true, that it is easier to see the foolish mistakes of others, but don't come across like we are any smarter now. Just look at all the misinformation and foolishness in Iraq with the recent war. Look at all the government scandals and hypocrisy throughout time. Heck, many people (American or not) would say that George W. Bush is just as "dumb" as what you're claiming you wouldn't believe this pharaoh was. I think you also would have done well to look up what midwives do. My sister has had a midwife for all three of her children, and they don't just leave you hanging after the birth. What you want us to answer here, is so impossible, that we can only do what I have done, and used the good sense that God has given us. My question: You seem to see it so clearly, that these Biblical people are "dumb", based on them not seeing the evident truth around them. Then, what are you to the people who see the answers to your questions so clearly?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 06-05-2006 6:21 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 12:04 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied
 Message 14 by Brian, posted 06-06-2006 3:31 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied
 Message 147 by jaywill, posted 06-15-2006 11:03 AM Teets_Creationist has not replied

  
Teets_Creationist
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 159 (318415)
06-06-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
06-05-2006 6:21 PM


Brian, you are just having a battle of opinion; I will just answer your questions point blank:
Was pharaoh so dumb that he wouldn’t have asked “why do they need midwives then?
ANSWER: Why would he ask them this? It is plausible to think these women could still use a midwife, because you can't assume that it was the midwives ONLY job to assist the delivery of the baby. Even now midwives check up regularly in weeks after a birth. I know this, because my sister has had a midwife three times; and, if you look it up online, you can find this out too. A little research goes a long way. I don't think the issue is wether or not the pharoah in this account is "dumb", but rather how limited your knowledge of midwives is. My own opinion would be that the pharoah didn't ask such a question, because he already knew that women used midwives after their pregnancies also. The problem here isn't an errant and unbelievable Bible, it is too much speculation on your part.
How dumb is this passage asking us to believe that the Philistine’s were?
ANSWER: You ARE asking an impossible question, because any answer would be speculation. How would you prove the IQ of the Philisties. You can't. If it could be proven throughout history man has always made the most logical judgements, then you might have a case. But I believe quite the oposite would be the case. The sensible answer,then, would be to look at what we DO know about man's foolishness. Therefore, using current examples IS logical.
9/11 for example, here in America. How many times do you hear of all the warning signs the government got? Why did it still happen? Is it plausible to think that the American government acted "dumb"? If a current people can be "dumb", why not ancient? Maybe the Philistines were asking the same questions, when the warning signs (Samson's hair growing back) were all around them, and they ignored them. Any argument in this area is speculation, and is not proof of inaccuracy in the Bible, but opinion.
You can keep your opinion of an errant Bible, but these examples can be taken literally. If you are ask simply "Can people be this gullible, or unsensible?", the simple answer is YES. Looking to what we know about people, even those in commanding positions today, we know this answer to be true. I would love to hear your opinoin of George W. Bush. Is he "dumb"? If you believe he is, then your question on wether a person in power can be "dumb", or gullible, or stupid, is obviously yes. It would be interesting to know how many people in high positions today, you consider "dumb".
Summary: everything you're saying is speculation, and can only be considered opinion. Stating that these stories are any more illogical than what our current lives are, is, in my opinion, false. Stating that speculation is EVIDENCE, is false.
I don't claim that I know everything; but the FACT is that your OPINION is not EVIDENCE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 06-05-2006 6:21 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 6:26 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied
 Message 59 by Brian, posted 06-09-2006 9:41 AM Teets_Creationist has not replied

  
Teets_Creationist
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 159 (318429)
06-06-2006 7:36 PM


Just to brush up, I believe some of what I have said about the midwives on this topic to be in too much detail, and useless. The one place many of us err in considering the scriptures, is reading only verses, and not taking the complete passage into consideration.
We all know that the job of the midwife is to help with the child at birth, the point of wether or not midwives were used to help after the birth, I now believe to be meaningless in this story. See, what you're missing, is the end chapter where the pharaoh commands to everyone that they need to kill all the men children. The reason he had to do this is because the Hebrews were not using midwives, as far as he believed. So he had to come up with plan number two.
So, to answer this question better:
Was pharaoh so dumb that he wouldn’t have asked “why do they need midwives then?
The pharaoh would have never asked this, because as far as he was concerned, they weren't using the midwives at all! So then....
[v.22] "And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.
KJV

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 06-06-2006 10:36 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied
 Message 25 by Coragyps, posted 06-06-2006 10:37 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied

  
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