The flood, and meat eating.

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but it was common practice in ancient times and up to the Renaissance for authors of certain works to not identify themselves or to sign their works. People back then believed that anything they did was for the glory of god and thus was expected to be humble enough to not claim their own work.

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I found your comment interesting. Was the practice just in the religious works or did other forms also not sign their works?Very different from today. Now the religious write it, sign it, copyright it, print it, and hawk it.
I guess humble isn't quite what it used to be.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Jar is right in that it was the quality of Cain's offering that was the problem not the content.During the age of offerings and sacrifice, offerings from the soil were proper offerings.In Jewish teaching: Cain and his first brother Abel, the first children of Adam and Eve, both brought offerings to God; Abel from the finest of his flocks and Cain from good, but not the choicest, produce of his fields.Now whether they were "fruits" that fell to the ground which can be good, but are not the best or whether it was from plants on the ground isn't really important. Either one makes the point of the story. Give your best to the Lord.Odds are the "fruit of the ground" changed depending on who was telling the story. We have only one rendition of the story.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Growing up I always thought Cain's offering was rejected because it was grown from the ground and since the ground had been cursed, anything from it would be cursed. That was my own rationale at the time.My churches never clearly taught the lesson of the story. They usually adjusted the reason to fit what they wanted to teach.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Despite jar's claims to the contrary, the Bible does indicate that blood sacrifices were necessary for "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins."

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Yes it does, but that is not the case with this story. What Cain and Abel gave was not a sin sacrifice, it was an offering. Probably a thanks offering. I'm not sure that the first fruits rule existed at the time of this story.From what I have read, this story would have existed before the sacrificial system for sin.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

So it's not that you wish to understand the Hebrew purpose of the story, but to use it as you wish.Since it is a teaching story, you can adjust it to fit your needs. I would suggest making God's response clearer also.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Just in case you didn't realize it, the whole blood sacrifice issue is a major one in the Hebrew Law.

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Really? Hadn't noticed.

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scriptures is that one was a blood sacrifice and one was not.

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One was an offering of fat and the other was not.

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To be charitable, something generally lost on you evos, the scriptures do not specify some other un-named quality, such as rotten fruit, being the reason God rejected Cain's offering.

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I said nothing of rotten fruit. I shared the Jewish teaching that it probably wasn't the best of his crop.

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I will not begrudge you if you want to believe something else, but please don't pretend I am the one adding to the Bible here.

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If you imply that animal offerings were the only acceptable gifts to God, then you are going the wrong direction.

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As far as the text, it simply says one is from the flock and another of the fruit of the ground.

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Exactly.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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To be charitable, something generally lost on you evos,

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I find it interesting that you tagged me an evo when I don't think I've actually made my thoughts on evolution known. I don't really participate in those threads.What leads you to believe I'm an evo?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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These, when considered together, imply that this is a Spring Offering, a first harvest, an offering of Thankgiving.

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I agree that it is a thanks offering, but spring would be the wrong time for crops. Firstling doesn't necessarily mean it was slaughtered right after birth. Once it was born it was marked for God. It would not have been slaughtered until big enough to eat.I was trying to get randman away from the idea that all gifts to God were always blood oriented.The Hebrew word for offering in this instance means gift.I think many get tied to the idea that animal sacrifice always deals with sin and it doesn't.Abel only gave the fat portions to God. The meat they would have eaten, which goes along with a fellowship or thanks type offering.

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The purpose of this story is not so much the sacrifice itself (although it is a reminder to bring neat stuff) or even Cain killing Abel (it is a oneliner) but rather the Marking of Cain as special and that Cain is under the Lord's protection.

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It reads as most myths tend to. No clear reason for the person getting in trouble, but the person needed to get in trouble for the story to playout. (Of course the reason may have been clearer in its time. )

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Cain is the father of Enoch.

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Never followed that one through before. Learn something new every day.There seem to be several instances where the nation of Israel is not necessarily off the best of the bunch.And God is surprised that Israel is a stiffnecked nation?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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While I still believe believe the book was compilated by Moses.

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It would be difficult for Moses to compile a book which states: Not to mention the part about his death.

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Psalms would have to come in the midst of kings since they were written by King David.

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David did not write all the Psalms, unless you feel he was alive during the exile. For more information and discussion on ancient attribution see the thread entitled: Ancient Attribution: Humble Anonymity or Pseudepigrapha”.Currently playing in a forum near you.

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"I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows." -Janette Barber-