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Author Topic:   The flood, and meat eating.
Regless
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 183 (255192)
10-27-2005 6:22 PM


Jar-
quote:
That's fine, you are free to believe that if you wish. As I said, the Bible is very inconsistent when it comes to geneologies (for example, there are two different geneologies for Jesus), often including more than one account of events. And it is certainly possible that there were two Enochs.
Fair enough. But can you please tell me where you found out about the two different geneologies.
quote:
As to Genesis having only one author, that is nearly impossible and I do know that most Christian Churchs accept not only that it had multiple authors but that the same stories are repeated in Genesis from those different sources and times. And there is nothing in the Bible that I know of that says Moses wrote Genesis. If I missed it perhaps you can point it out.
Yes, you're right, I should've phrased this better. I appoligize. While I still believe believe the book was compilated by Moses. I understand that there is nothing to support that he wrote any of it. Hebrews at the time kept track of their family documents so they knew their lineage, as that was considered highly important at the time. I document I have open in my pop-up window indicates that Genisis consists of a variety of documents, three are even believed to be from before the flood. Perhaps this explains the repetion of Enoch. Or perhaps Jared married in Enoch's famiy. It doesn't say, sadly.
quote:
It's also unlikely that Paul was really the author of Hebrews, although it too is possible. Regardless, the information about Enoch found there and in Jude IIRC comes from the Book of Enoch, mostly 1 Enoch. And neither 1 Enoch nor 2 Enoch made it into many of the Canons.
Yes, but that doesn't mean Paul didn't know of the books of Enoch. He obviousally knew the story of Daniel since he made a refference to him. Their were many books that didn't make it into the cannon, some of the more popular ones are commonly reffered to today as the apocraphal. But perhaps there were more of the Gospel books. Also, the strongest evidence I hear that paul didn't write Hebrews is that it's a diffrent style. Fair enough except that writting styles change. My writting is different from stuff I did even a year ago. Another thing to conisder is that writing styles can change depending one who you are reffering to. A congregation that was becoming calous or ridig, for example would require stronger words than one that was simply making an honest mistake. Of course, this doesn't prove anything. But I don't think the ecidence against Paul's writing is as strong as most claim it to be. And I'd like to thank you for keeping an open mind.
Brain -
quote:
Any support for this claim, there is certainly nothing in the Old Testament to suggest that Moses wrote the Book of Genesis.
That's why we look at secular records. The dead sea scrolls and thousands of other copies writting in ancient times.
quote:
Paul didn't write Hebrews. Hebrews and a few other Pastorals have now been taken off Paul, been that way for a long time now.
Hmm, I've read the italicized text, but I don't see anything conclusive. As I've mentioned before writing styles change depending on when and who you are addressing, I agree the lack of a signature is odd, but it could be the Roman solider interupted him a dozen other things. It's note-worthy I agree, but not conclusive.
Not done with the Old Testament, but no. It's commonly accepted that Nehemiah compiled the Hebrew scriptures, so he would have to be the last, yet he is not even halfway through it. Secondly, Psalms would have to come in the midst of kings since they were written by King David.
quote:
Surely an omniscient God could provide veggies and thus avoid the eating of meat?
Yes! I agree with you completely on this. However surely when Adam sinned an omniscient god wcould've whiped him out and started over, but rather he decided to make it work.
When Lot wanted to leave Sodom and Gamorah (sp) he said he couldn't run to vilage god told him to. Surely an omniscient could've found a way for him to do so, but rather he left one of the cities he intended to destroy thus giving lot a closer destination. Same with the walls of Jericho. Why use trumphets and horned when a meteor will work just as well. It seems God usualy tried to work with what he had, only in rare cases did he use increadible means to achieve his goals, such as the tenth plague.

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 10-27-2005 6:49 PM Regless has not replied
 Message 183 by purpledawn, posted 10-27-2005 8:30 PM Regless has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 182 of 183 (255199)
10-27-2005 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Regless
10-27-2005 6:22 PM


Areas and evidence
We're over in the Science side of the board and so over here, you should try to provide evidence that can be independently varified. Things like references to the Flood or Adam & Eve are probably pointless since neither can be shown to have even happened.
But can you please tell me where you found out about the two different geneologies.
Which two geneologies?
As to the reference in Jude and Hebrews to Enoch, it'salmost certain that they came from the Books of Enoch. They were very popular around the time of Christ.
But as a Christian, I can say that most Christian Churches do not think there was a sole author of Genesis. Here's a comment from Bishop Sims
But even here the distinction between religion and science is clear. In Genesis there is not one creation statement but two. They agree as to why and who, but are quite different as to how and when. The statements are set forth in tandem, chapter one of Genesis using one description of method and chapter two another. According to the first, humanity was created, male and female, after the creation of plants and animals. According to the second, man was created first, then the trees, the animals and finally the woman and not from the earth as in the first account, but from the rib of the man. Textual research shows that these two accounts are from two distinct eras, the first later in history, the second earlier.
form Pastoral Letter
This message has been edited by jar, 10-27-2005 05:49 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Regless, posted 10-27-2005 6:22 PM Regless has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3475 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 183 of 183 (255221)
10-27-2005 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Regless
10-27-2005 6:22 PM


Attribution
quote:
While I still believe believe the book was compilated by Moses.
It would be difficult for Moses to compile a book which states:
Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses .
Not to mention the part about his death.
quote:
Psalms would have to come in the midst of kings since they were written by King David.
David did not write all the Psalms, unless you feel he was alive during the exile.
Psalm 137:1
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
For more information and discussion on ancient attribution see the thread entitled: Ancient Attribution: Humble Anonymity or Pseudepigrapha”.
Currently playing in a forum near you.

"I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows." -Janette Barber-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Regless, posted 10-27-2005 6:22 PM Regless has not replied

  
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