To "Believe in God/Jesus" Means

Remember the OP is concerning the difference between how we are asked to believe in God, as opposed to, how we believe in a living person. We are dealing with general Christianity.With a living person we have behavior, action, words, etc. to physically interact with and have confidence in.Christianity does not provide anything for us to trust or have confidence in, except for what the clergy present.We only have the middleman, so to speak, to "believe in".If we take out the middleman what is left?God. So now we are back to existence, because there are no physical actions to have confidence in.So today believing in God means to believe that he exists outside of the books, period.
The rest is believing what the religion presents or IOW having confidence in people.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Well, okay. I still don't have a clue what it is you're trying to say. I have no idea what that means. I'm not sure about that either. If by "The rest is believing what the religion presents" that you might believe in the lessons found in the theology, things like treating others as you would like to be treated yourself, then I'd probably agree.But when you add "or IOW having confidence in people." I kinda get lost. I'd say it's more you having confidence in yourself.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It sounds to me like you are observing there are (at least) two different kinds of christianity. One is the one that concentrates on the divinity of Jesus, and the fact he 'died for your sins'. They are heavy into the sacrifice of jesus for their sins.Then, there are the ones that look at what they perceive to be the message of Jesus (depending on which book). They will look the message of jesus about 'what ever you do to the least of these, you do to me' to heart, and try to be kind, chartable, and good. The second is method is much more in line with the Jewish roots of Christianity.

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I have no idea what that means.

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Characters exist within the imagination of their creator and within the medium in which they are presented to society. Characters such as Aslan, Harry Potter, Scrooge, Captain James T. Kirk, etc. only exist within the various mediums in which they are presented and in the minds of those who have encountered them in these various mediums.So believing in the Christian God today means to believe that he exists outside of the medium in which he is presented, namely the Christian Bible.I know God exists within the Bible.

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I'm not sure about that either. If by "The rest is believing what the religion presents" that you might believe in the lessons found in the theology, things like treating others as you would like to be treated yourself, then I'd probably agree.

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The list in the OP is what I'm referring to as the rest, not the actual lessons dealing with right behavior.To believe in God means:
to believe we are under Him, responsible to Him, accountable to Him.
to realize that He has spoken.
to see that life has a meaning.
to believe that He is all-powerful and that we are His subjects.
to experience real happiness and joy.
our lives and actions must reflect His existence.
believing that life is basically good and worth living.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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It sounds to me like you are observing there are (at least) two different kinds of christianity.

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Christianity today is a religion of creed. They are more concerned with what we think than what we do. They hope that creed leads to deed.The OT (Judaism) presents God as a God of law and therefore more concerned with what we do than with what we think. Deed leads to creed.In the NT, the Jewish part which called for Jews to repent dealt with behavior. The Gentile portions dealt with what to think mixed with behavior.Christianity today is inconsistent.As a parent, I know that my husband and I have to be consistent in our behavior and in the training and disciplining of our child.Christianity is like dysfunctional parents. The child is not given clear instructions and when searching for clearer direction, the child is given conflicting and varying instructions.As Phatboy put it in his thread on What is an "Ex Believer", anyway?

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I maintain that those who used to believe in God never actually experienced meeting Him. If they had, they would know it!

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Unfortunately no Christian can tell you how to meet God.
No Christian can tell you if you are "believing in" God correctly.
No Christian can tell you if your experience is truly with God.I do feel that Jesus and the Nazarenes followed Judaism.I think the stress on belief started with Paul.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

You would make a good Jew.

Okay. Maybe I understand what you're asking.Yes I believe GOD exists outside the Bible.Let me try a look at your list. I'm not so sure about this one. I have some problems with the Under phrase; I think it is closer to with. The next two I can accept if you mean that someday our behavior will be judged. And that he continues to speak. I'm not at all sure about this one. I think any meaning to life is external to ones relationship with GOD. Yes to the first part and not so sure on the latter. While the relationship can bring those things it is not limited to that. In addition those are certainly things that can come from other sources as well. That would be nice but we're human. Again, I'm not sure how that relates to the subject.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree pretty much with everything you said. I think the issue of belief in Christianity is not just a Pauline/John rewrite but in many cases a misunderstanding of what was said.I also agree that behavior is not stressed as much as it should be in Christianity. I think that's a major failure in many Christian sects today.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Thank you I do like the way they teach with stories. The moral of the story is clear. The method reminds me of the Native American stories I've read.I would have a problem with their food laws though.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

The point being that clergy, evangelist, or whoever is teaching Christianity don't have one concrete answer as to what it means to "believe in" God.The meaning changes to suit the purpose.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

i've been thinking about this for a while, and i don't think i agree at all any more.jar suggested in If Genesis is Metaphorical, what's the metaphor?:

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Can we walk through the sections of Genesis and discuss the various lessons to be learned from each?

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i was very interested in this idea. if you're up for it, start another thread, and i'm sure both jar and i will participate.i suggested a starting place in response to jar:

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i'd like to start with genesis 12:10-13:2, 20:1-18, 26:6-17. the three wife-for-sister stories. apparently, the trick worked so well for abraham that he did it twice and is son did it once.

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basically, our hereos are rewarded for deception. i'd really like to know where the moral is here.

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I absolutely agree. That would really make an interesting thread since I believe we're going through yet another redefinition of what it means to be a Christian. It's certainly not the first time other. I'm quite sure your very sentiments were echoed at the time of Paul, Constantine, the Reformation, the Age of Enlightenment and on and on.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Hey Arach,My journey to understanding the Bible took me back to its roots, Judaism. My reasoning was that the original belonged to them and I wanted to see how they presented its teachings to their people.In the course of this journey, I have come across many Jewish web sites. The Jewish perspective is very interesting.Torah.org is a nice one. Many essays answering various questions today.
Distanced from Falsehood mentions the wife/sister episode you mention, but is dealing with falsehood. I think in one thread dealing with this wife/sister deal someone asked why Abraham didn't get in trouble for lying.I would enjoy discussing Genesis stories from the Jewish viewpoint, if I can find it. I haven't looked at this particular situation, but will see what I can find.Needless to say the parables and stories I read weren't strictly from the Bible.I still find some things I don't agree with, but they at least back up what they teach.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

same here, actually. i just don't ALWAYS agree. but their take is usually very interesting and seems much more correct and sensible than christian perspectives ever do.i just don't think that genesis is useful (or written) to teach morality in any kind of way anymore. i used to, but reading it carefully, i could not find moral instruction.i would like to be convinced differently, of course, but it would probably still fail to change my perspective of the book.the link is interesting, but still not (technically) correct. the story also happens with isaac and rebekah, and she is not his sister. either way, both isaac and abraham are rewarded for their dishonesty.i would really like a better reading of the story, as i don't even see a good reason why it should be there one time let alone 3. but apologism isn't really what i'm looking for. yeah, same here. this is actually the first such point i've run across.

The influence of Paul on Christianity is what western culture seems to ignore. It puzzles Muslims. Are there any other Muslims on this forum?
You should read the Qaran. Jesus was a prophet. Paul introduced Greek ideas, such as resurrection. The influence of Rome on why Paul wrote what he did also seems to be downplayed by westerners.