To "Believe in God/Jesus" Means

that is hopefully below the radar screen of any Admins.I grew up as one of the only Christian families in a Jewish neighborhood of Baltimore. From somewhere around five or six my constant companions were all Jewish families and so I was exposed pretty early to the Jewish take on religion. From that environment I went straight into an Episcopal church boarding school that emphasized looking beyond the confines of literal Biblical interpretation and studying other religions as well as my own.I wonder if there is a trend showing here?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ok.. you would make a good Reform Jew

IMHO, for a believer, it is both and for a non believer it is neither. I think it depends on where one is on life’s journey. For someone who has recently accepted faith in God, believe in is simply acceptance. As one matures in the faith, then trust in God’s abilities become the meaning of belief. Doesn’t seem fair does it. With all the miracles of the Old Testament it seems ridiculous that the Israelites continued to lack faith and revert to paganism and corruption.Or consider the teachings of Jesus and the miracles he performed. To us, it would seem easy to believe if we were a witness to those events. Events that were external to the individual.Now consider our present day where we have no miracles visible to a broad group of people. Externally, there is nothing except the written Word and testimony of believers as the basis for belief. Therefore, we not only question the abilities of God but also God’s very existence.Why is this so? Why are there no major miracles today that would remove at least the question of God’s existence? Why has God raised the bar for belief? All God would have to do is send down a little manna from heaven, like he did to the Israelites in the desert, and there would be a huge number of converts.Obviously, that’s not the way God wants it. He gave us free will for a reason.It seems to me there is a progression in how God relates to mankind. Sort of a maturing process. There is a movement from a distant and often vengeful God of the OT who performed quite a few rather spectacular miracles. Here, God was very active in proving his existence by revealing his power over nature. To the Israelites of that time, there was no question about God’s existence.Then with the NT, there is a progression to a more personal and loving God, a further revelation. Jesus’ messages were accompanied by personal miracles,(i.e. more of the one-on-one healings and less involved with power over nature). At this point, the existence of God had been established. The Jewish religion had matured through long held traditions focused on the worship of God.Finally on to the present day, where there are virtually no external miracles, (i.e. miracles witnessed by a large group of people). Nowadays, there is only the Spirit of God, working through the individual, as the primary basis for belief. A further step in the maturity of faith.I believe God has made it clear that He desires a personal relationship with His people, a mature relationship. IMHO, God wants us to honor the OT and understand the history of God’s interactions with mankind as a basis for belief, but move to the NT relationship. A relationship that does not require great external miracles.Since God has been using the personal approach for the last two thousand years, it seems this is His preferred method of communication and path to belief.

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It seems to me there is a progression in how God relates to mankind. Sort of a maturing process.

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I belive there is a maturing process.Just as offspring mature to eventually be independent of their parents, so to is mankind maturing to eventually be independent of the need for a parental God figure and accompanying rituals.I feel that ex-believers have cut the apron string so to speak.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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The influence of Paul on Christianity is what western culture seems to ignore. It puzzles Muslims. Are there any other Muslims on this forum?
You should read the Qaran. Jesus was a prophet. Paul introduced Greek ideas, such as resurrection. The influence of Rome on why Paul wrote what he did also seems to be downplayed by westerners.

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Salamun alaikum Ianat,I'm currently the only Muslim active in this forum [AFAIK]. Welcome!

Your opinion was shared by Sigmund Freud when he wrote:

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If one attempts to assign to religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition, as a parallel to the neurosis which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity.

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Yes, that is the other side of the coin. But do you believe that in the distant future, given enough time, mankind will eventually completely abandon all religion?

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My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. ---Albert Einstein

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But do you believe that in the distant future, given enough time, mankind will eventually completely abandon all religion?

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Don't know, but it is a possibility.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Thank you. I shall continue with the great read here now.Chris.

Seems odd that people of science who currently can not prove theories of today can actually conclude their own belief to say that there is a solo creator of all the infinte and that is God. What says that there is just 1 God? Why not more? Exactly how can a conscience exist with nothing prior to its own existance to say that it always was and exclude the possibility that this conscience could infact never existed at all but, just random occurances? Evolution can easily answer the many amazing things you see beyond the stars but, it doesnt prove or disprove a God. How can you possibly come to any direct conclusion as to what the answer is unless you consider your beliefs to be possibilities in which case I will not argue with.Beliving in somthing without justification is nothing more than Blind faith.Humans just naturally can not know if their loved one truly loves them nor if their best friend truly loves their parents. Feelings are subjective.I can easily agrue that wood is glass and nothing you say can alter my belief therefore how am I wrong? The real question is... are you capable of looking outside of your beliefs and see that maybe your just letting coincidence or fear overwhelm your reality?Edited by oblivionlord, : No reason given.

Huh?Sorry don't have a clue what you are asking there.Love to try to answer if there is a question in there.And welcome to EvC.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I provided many questions and my own insight

So, how are things in oblivion?If you search further down the list of topics, you can probably dredge up some even older ones and subject us to your insight on them.Or, you could find a more current topic to discuss.

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Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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I have started with the most recent of topics and worked my way down.

No, no, that would be totally out of character. You see, Oblivionlord is master of all thing oblivious. Oblivionlord obliviates or 'disobliviates' things at will.Jocularity aside, that's not a very nice way to welcome someone in our midst, is it? Give them a chance!Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

nice attack Parasomnium. Is this how you welcome new comers?