Jonah and the Whale.. a question.

Hi Lar,We had a discussion HERE about Jonah and his 'whale' it may answer some of your questions.Take some headache tabs BEFORE you read Demeyer's stuff Brian.

Hi,The story is a great piece of literature, but the events in it really didnt happen. You are correct it is a didactic tale.I am amazed that people go to such crazy lengths to squeeze someone inside a dead shark or a dead whale, you wouldn't believe some of the mental gymnastics that some people go through to try and make Jonah's adventure an actual historical event.brian.

Hi, I take it back LOL, you must have seen a lot more than I have!Cheers.Brian.

Hi Did it not occur to you that finding human skeletons inside a whale, which 'they' haven't, actually negates the Jonah story?You should learn how to support a claim with some references as well, it would save a lot of time.Brian.

No it doesn't, it presents a story that completely kills off the 'Free will defence'.The Nineveh of the 'fishy tale' and the real Nineveh are two different places.The Jonah tale is a campfire story that tries to present how forgiving Yahweh is, but it is ultimately a load of tripe.Brian.

KJV Matthew 12:40 Well, according to the perfect KJV Bible, Jesus himself believed that it was a whale. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. So what's going on?Has history's greatest liar told another lie, or has Jesus made yet another mistake, or does the KJV contain an error?Or, is it all three, and the Old Testament actually says 'sea creature', which could be something other than a fish or a whale? If we believe as you do then any old nonsense could be possible, why bother even thinking about it?Brian.

hi X,I fail to see how you can come to this conclusion if you have read the Book of Jonah.Jonah's choice was to NOT go to Nineveh, he tried to run away from the mission.Why do you think God had him swallowed by a sea creature?Where was the boat Jonah was on bound for?Cheers.Brian.

Hi, Jonah's will was to not go to Nineveh, he even got on a boat bound for Tarshish, how can Jonah's actions be independant from his will?God conjured up this creature to take Jonah to Nineveh, if you read the mythic language you can see that Jonah describes the belly as a prison, making it impossible for him to go free. Yet another negation of free will.God was determined that Jonah was going to Nineveh whether he wanted to or not.Jonah 4:11 should be a clue as to how unhistorical this story is:But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left120,000 people in Nineveh, you are having a laugh. But, throughout their history the Israelites have continually turned their back on God, either individually or collectively, but God always takes them back. These myths however, are to explain why God is so useless. Which particular deal would that be?Brian.

Correct. God ignored Jonah's fre will choice of choosing not to go to Nineveh, and forced Jonah to go. So we agree that Jonah did not choose to go to Nineveh but God forced him to. Thus, Jonah's free will was taken from him. And as a being with alleged free will, his choice not to go to Nineveh should have been honoured. It was a choice whether an Israelite worshipped Yahweh or not. Yes, this was his free will decision, so if his free will decision was to disobey God, then obviously God has ignored Jonah's wishes by forcing him to go to Nineveh!Where is Jonah's free will when he is trapped inside a sea creature?I am sure he didn't choose this path, he did not want to go to Nineveh, yet he ended up there against his will.It is not difficult to grasp.What is the big deal with not having free will anyway?Brian.

Hi, Yep, and Jonah said no to God, but God bullied him into having to go to Nineveh, the choice was removed from the equation for Jonah. What choice did he have inside the whale? Yes he acted against it. God forced Jonah to do the exact opposite of what he wanted to do. Jonah wanted to go to Tarshish, which was in the opposite direction from Nineveh. Why not, what is the point in God giving us free will if we cannot follow that will? What choice? What choice? He was eventually bullied into going, the eventual outcome was the opposite to what he wanted. And why did Jonah obey God?Read the first two chapter and find out. Jonah was terrified for his life, he knew that God was acting against him, he knew that God had ‘hurled him into the deep’. He had no choice because he knew that God would have him end up in Nineveh regardless of what Jonah himself wanted.Read 1.1-3 The word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai: 2 "Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."
3 But Jonah ran away from the LORD and headed for Tarshish. He went down to Joppa, where he found a ship bound for that port. After paying the fare, he went aboard and sailed for Tarshish to flee from the LORD . Jonah’s choice was to go to Tarshish, he had even paid his fare, but did he end up there? No, because God intervened and forced Jonah to go to Nineveh, against his will, so Jonah’s free will choice was removed from him. Well maybe if the Bible had an ounce of credibility then more people would believe these tales. You mean like Jonah was forced to go to Nineveh against his will? Or not to even think about him at all.But, if God was a real being, then he could step in and force us to love him as he forced Jonah to go to Nineveh. This would influence our free choice of course. I mean if God was clever enough to give humans all the facts then we could make an informed choice based on all the evidence. But God chooses to remain invisible and silent in the real world, so how can anyone be blamed for not taking God seriously?Brian.

But, his initial choice, of going to Tarshish, was the free will choice that was taken from him, everything else was manipulated by God. Jonah wanted to go to Tarshish and God didn’t let him. And did God intervene, no! And did God intervene, no!Jonah made the choice to go to Tarshsih, did God intervene, YES!So you examples actually support my original claim. God allowed Adam and Eve to eat the fruit through their free choice and stood back and watched, hey we can now blame God for the Fall of Man, excellent.God can intervene to save the inhabitants of an insignificant little town yet stands back and watches the whole human race become cursed, what a great guy. So you essentially agree with what I am saying. He made his decision because it was the only choice he had if he wanted to live, he was inside a flaming sea monster!! Well this is a matter of faith as the entire Jonah story is filled with scientific and historical impossibilities. There is no evidence that the Ninevites abandoned their religion in the 8th century BCE, this has to be taken on faith as it cannot be taken on evidence. If God appeared to me I would be at the doctors as soon as possible. I disagree, if anything archaeology has undermined almost the entire Old Testament, certainly up to the end of Kings at least. This is what he wanted his prophets to be, unquestioning robots, and when they questioned they were manipulated by God, they had no choice, no free will. It’s amazing what people can imagine is real, the power of the mind is immense. It works the other way as well, no Christian can ever be convinced that God is a fairy tale character.The problem is, there is no evidence for God. If you search hard enough for anything you will find it. If you really search you can convince yourself of anything. I was once a Christian. Me too, and still do. Yes, it is obvious that God is a man made character. Best way to be, But there is informed and there is ‘informed’. So books led you to being a born again Christian?Which books would these be? Where?Brian.