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Author Topic:   Born believers: How your brain creates God
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 46 of 74 (498699)
02-12-2009 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Buzsaw
02-12-2009 7:03 PM


Re: When I Was A Child
Though I don't remember of my teachers praying in school or of my early school teachers advocating Christianity, likely there were references to God in some of the text books or history lessons relative to the founding fathers. In some of he patriotic songs and things like the Pledge of Allegiance there were references to God but not to the point that I had a particular awareness of them. Most of the stories were things like Dick, Jane & Spot or fairy tales, etc. At Christmas it was all Santa. Certainly prayer or Bible reading was neither in the school or home in my experience.
I never heard the term "born again" until I heard it in church. We lived in the country in Wyoming and I never experienced a flush toilet until the 2nd grade, though the year before we moved to town our home had a flush toilet. The one room schoolhouse had a wood pot belly stove and an outhouse. All 8 grades were taught in the school house. When we moved to town that all changed. That was during grade 3.
I don't remember of prayer in our home before we went to church. There was a little prayer I prayed before bed time as a child, but to the best of my recollection that was after we began going to church. It was the one, "Now I lay me down to sleep; I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take." ....or something like that.
Ok, Buz, I am not going to go round and round with you on this. You believe what you want to believe. That is fine. I just agree to disagree.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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Modulous
Member (Idle past 98 days)
Posts: 7798
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 47 of 74 (527472)
10-01-2009 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Modulous
02-04-2009 5:21 PM


This is your brain on religion
It seems that the subject of this thread has been creeping into common discourse. So I'm bumping it.
An invisible pink unicorn type idea is presented about 15 minutes in:
He argues that religious ideas are basically very human concepts with a little twist. He discusses 'minimally counter-intuitive worlds' where humans might be inclined to believe in a super-intelligent being that created the universe, but not in an invisible pink unicorn (though he talks about a tree that can hear prayers under certain conditions, versus a tree that sits your exams, eats spaghetti and parks your car for you).
Which is possibly one reason why people dismiss IPU type ideas as 'clearly ridiculous'...the IPU is maximally counter-intuitive rather than minimally so.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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MrGrim
Junior Member (Idle past 5245 days)
Posts: 11
From: Jo'burg
Joined: 09-18-2009


Message 48 of 74 (527713)
10-02-2009 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-04-2009 3:09 PM


Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Edited by MrGrim, :

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18119
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 74 (907824)
02-28-2023 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
02-04-2009 3:09 PM


Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
This was an excellent topic by NosyNed where he began by sharing this link:
Born believers: How your brain creates God
I wanted to tack on my question and reopen this topic.
Review: Debunking the bunkum
[]

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Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Taq, posted 02-28-2023 5:19 PM Phat has replied
 Message 51 by Theodoric, posted 02-28-2023 8:06 PM Phat has replied
 Message 52 by nwr, posted 02-28-2023 10:51 PM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9825
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 50 of 74 (907825)
02-28-2023 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
02-28-2023 5:12 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Phat writes:
ExZBelievers: Why Did You Quit?
I watched an interesting video that suggested certain personality types are more likely to leave the church than others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xejfuTNov7Y
I left the church, and wouldn't you know it, I have one of the two most common personality types for those who leave the church. Interesting stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 02-28-2023 5:12 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-01-2023 1:46 AM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8917
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 51 of 74 (907828)
02-28-2023 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
02-28-2023 5:12 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Never really was a believer. I was raised in a nominally Catholic household. My mother converted from Congregationalist to marry my father. My parents rarely went to church. I am baptized and confirmed Catholic. I knew before I was confirmed that it was all bullshit. I figured it was a Santa Claus thing and the adults were all in on it. One day they would explain that it was all bullshit and only kids would believe something so stupid. Well, that day never happened. When I was a child I believed in childish things.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


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nwr
Member
Posts: 6407
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 52 of 74 (907831)
02-28-2023 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
02-28-2023 5:12 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Why did I quit?
A variety of reasons. I began to doubt the miracles, the resurrection and the divinity of Jesus. But what brought it all to a head, was that it was becoming increasingly obvious that people who claimed to be Christian were not behaving as I would expect.
For example, how could someone claim to be Christian and teach "The Good Samaritan" yet be racist?
How could a pastor lecture the teenagers on morality, but be blind to some of the business practices of an older church member? Was their tithing what really mattered? Was it all about the money?

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity --> -->

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4241
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


(1)
Message 53 of 74 (907833)
02-28-2023 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by nwr
02-28-2023 10:51 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Was it all about the money?
Yes and the joy of fucking over people's minds

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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Phat
Member
Posts: 18119
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 74 (907835)
03-01-2023 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Taq
02-28-2023 5:19 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
I think I was an IIFJ. I know that I was FJ, at least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Taq, posted 02-28-2023 5:19 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Taq, posted 03-01-2023 11:17 AM Phat has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9825
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 55 of 74 (907870)
03-01-2023 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-01-2023 1:46 AM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Phat writes:
I think I was an IIFJ. I know that I was FJ, at least.
Interesting. I am an ISTP, for whatever it counts for. That's one of the two types most strongly associated with atheists. As the youtuber mentions, these aren't black and white correlations, but I do think there is some interesting stuff in the analysis.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by PaulK, posted 03-01-2023 1:25 PM Taq has replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17783
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 56 of 74 (907885)
03-01-2023 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Taq
03-01-2023 11:17 AM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
Myers-Briggs is at best a blunt instrument. The last time I tried a test I came out a IxTx and the time before was INTx. The I and T parts are strong but the other two factors are pretty well balanced.

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9825
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 57 of 74 (907887)
03-01-2023 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by PaulK
03-01-2023 1:25 PM


Re: Ex Believers: Why Did You Quit?
PaulK writes:
Myers-Briggs is at best a blunt instrument.
I would agree. I tend to trust the social sciences as far as I can throw them. However, it is an interesting correlation from a science-adjacent point of view.

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Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18119
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 74 (907924)
03-02-2023 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Taq
03-01-2023 1:29 PM


Exploring Thinking Taqtics
Taq writes:
I tend to trust the social sciences as far as I can throw them.
Thats an interesting statement in and of itself. Which leads to a couple of questions. Are you ready?
  • Are the social sciences scientific?
  • What criteria is/are required by you personally before you trust someone or something?
    Does one simply trust what they prefer? (I think I tend to do that)

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by Taq, posted 03-01-2023 1:29 PM Taq has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18119
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 59 of 74 (907925)
    03-02-2023 9:47 AM
    Reply to: Message 56 by PaulK
    03-01-2023 1:25 PM


    To Be Blunt About It
    PaulK writes:
    Myers-Briggs is at best a blunt instrument. The last time I tried a test I came out a IxTx and the time before was INTx. The I and T parts are strong but the other two factors are pretty well balanced.
    Do you personally think, as Taq does, that Social Sciences (in this case) are social yet unscientific?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 56 by PaulK, posted 03-01-2023 1:25 PM PaulK has replied

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    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17783
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 60 of 74 (907927)
    03-02-2023 9:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
    03-02-2023 9:47 AM


    Re: To Be Blunt About It
    It really depends on specifics. The social sciences aren’t as scientific as the hard sciences, but some parts are better than others.
    Myers-Briggs does not seem to be highly regarded even by social science standards.

    This message is a reply to:
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