Evolution is NOT science: A challenge

riVeRraT So if you need to first believe that it is true then what makes you think it is anything other than wishful thinking and a self-induced illusion? In other words why is it required for belief to occur before the effect if the effect is real? Science requires empirical evidence and not mind games. This is the way in which science avoids fooling itelf through pre-concieved ideas seperate from the reality of the material world.
It is quite easy to see that human desires for comfort go along way to explaining the supposed "reality" of the experience of the holy spirit effect that it is claimed by people to occur to them.Fear of death and imagined futilty of existence lead people to drop their critical mind and accept things on an emotional basis rather than subject the process to questioning.

piVeRraT Exactly what do you mean by the phrase you'll understand when it happens that leads you to believe it is something other than you finally convincing yourself through a process of self induced brain-washing? I mean, after all 18 years of your life accepting as true starting with god then christ and then the holy spirit is an experience that you seem to feel cannot be otherwise.However,after 18 years of adhering to a set pattern of belief which includes active contemplation and discussion of the holy spirit,{I assume} it is not a stretch to consider with a critical mind that you may have decieved yourself into a conviction of something that perhaps has no basis in reality. So my question is how do you determine that such is not the case?

Phatboy What is the effect that you consider to be real and how does it manifest itself to you? How does spiritual reality differ from material reality that you can explain without deviating into personal opinion?By the way welcome back big guy! Stick around a little more if you are able.