By Grace or by Works Remix

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One point of view that I have heard is that God plays no favorites---He has provided a means for salvation and communion (with Him) for all of us, and that it is by our behavior and efforts that we will accomplish our best spiritual and practical effort in this life.

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I think it depends on what one feels they need salvation from.I feel that communing with and respecting what was created is what leads to spiritual maturity and communion with God. I think many people are predisposed (genetics) to this behavior. (good tree, good fruit) Even religion in the hands of an aggressive nature can be bad.Our source is that which was created by God.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I like the pruning analogy.When God brings to ones attention a "flaw" in ones own behavior, the individual has a choice of dealing with the "flaw" or continuing as before.If God shows someone that they are doing something wrong by his standards and the person realizes that what they are doing is wrong by God's standard, then the person needs to "prune" out the wrong behavior.God will show you the bad branches, but IMO we have to apply the shears and maintain the good branches; which does take some time and effort to change our own behavior.I think many are disappointed because they expect an instant reformatting to take place in their brain after acceptance so that change will be easy. IMO it still takes effort on our part. Effort to continually listen for the master husbandman's instructions and effort to carry them out.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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I don't think I'd really claim any "fruitful works" as a direct mechanism for becoming spiritually attuned.

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What do you consider fruitful works to be? If you're thinking good deeds, then no I wouldn't consider those type of things to help one become spiritually attuned.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

You didn't answer my question. What do you consider fruitful works to be?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I'm trying to remember what my train of thought was when I first responded to you Message 14. Works as used in the NT refers to actions, things you physically do (i.e. giving money to the poor, religious rituals, visiting the sick). There can be good works or bad works.When something is fruitful it means it produces. So when you say fruitful works, all it says is that you did something. It doesn't mean that what you did is good or bad. Just whatever action you were doing produced what you were trying to do.So no I wouldn't agree that belief/unbelief, love, lust, or pride are works.I also wouldn't call the fruit of the spirit "works" either. IMO, the Holy Spirit operates within us to show us what needs to be changed (i.e. throw off the old). As those old unacceptable thoughts and behaviors give way to right thoughts and behavior we exude the fruit of the spirit. So as we mature spiritually our actions should show all the fruits of the spirit.From what you've said concerning unbelief, pride, and lust; the Holy Spirit has brought to your attention thoughts and behaviours you need to work on. So you are at a point of deciding whether to do what is necessary to change or continue as you were.But even though you are battling unbelief, pride, and lust; that doesn't mean you don't do good works or that you produce bad fruit. You're still working on finetuning your spirituality. It is a journey.So in relation to the question in the OP: I think it is a combination of the Holy Spirit and our own efforts. It is by our own effort that we decide to say yes or no to change.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz