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Author Topic:   Is God determined to allow no proof or evidence of his existence?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 17 of 301 (208507)
05-15-2005 10:35 PM


my perspective.
a common toy in a child's toy box, at any age really, is a jigsaw puzzle. a puzzle can teach a child many things: hand-eye coordination, visual memory, and problem solving. when a mother is playing with her infant son, she'll often first show the child how to put it together, and then let the child go and try it on his own. it invariably takes a while to set in, and the puzzles always get more complex. first the shapes of animals, that fit nicely into holes. then 8-piecers. and as the child masters each one, the parents tend to find more and more complex toys for the child to play with, appropriate to the age and skill of the child. eventually, this progresses to things like legos, where the child can use their own intellect to create their own constructions. and from their, school and college, each developing the mind of the child in steps.
but a crucial step in learning how to piece things together is that the parents show the child, and then back off and let the child try it on their own. the child may look to his mother for help, but he really has to learn to do it on his own. it's part of growing and developing. it is neccessary for the parents to be out of the immediate picture for a while, so the child can form those problem solving skills on his own.
similarly, it is neccessary for god to be out of the immediate picture for a while so we can figure out how to solve our own problems. we will never learn to walk and talk as a mature species unless god is not carrying us and not babying us. and that requires silence for some time, thousands of years to us maybe, but an instant for god. what god created in us was something that had a capacity to his equal, as a child can one day become his parents' equal. we are made in his image, like we are in the image of our parents. and this is a breif moment in our childhood, wondering where god is so he can show us how to put the pieces together again.

אָרַח

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 05-16-2005 11:48 PM arachnophilia has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 37 of 301 (209071)
05-17-2005 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
05-16-2005 11:48 PM


Re: my perspective.
However, even in the case of the parent that trains their child, the parent is usually never too far away.
no, but we're operating on a vastly different scale than god. a moment away for him could be eons to us.
Yes, but we never totally do things on our own. To some extent we are always dependent on God -- even if some are more mature in their faith than others.
i can't really say this in a way the won't insult half the board. so if it pisses you off, just pretend this doesn't include you. but i think it's mostly in peoples' heads.
But isn't God, at least from the Judeo-Christian perspective, still with us by the Holy Spirit?
It seems to me that he promised that he would never leave us or forsake us.
i sure haven't seen him do anything terribly involved in last little while. he hasn't left us, really. he's just watching for a while, holding back.
The problem with is it, in my opinion, is that the child can still "remember" their direct experience with their parent.
and so can we, as a species, i think. in books like the bible. but i'm talking about a huge difference in scale. i'm not comparing individuals to god, but the whole collected species. this would be like asking if the child's cells have memory direct interaction with the parent. on the cellular level, most of the child is really incapable of understanding what the parent is. even to a concious child as a whole, they might not totally understand in all of the intricacies of how they got to be there. we're the cells in this analogy.
the whole point of this discusion is whether God is determined to allow no proof or evidence of his existence or not.
and i think, as we perceive things, he is. but it's a byproducts of his temporary non-envolvement.
The question of whether the parent is determined to allow no proof or evidence of their existence isn't addressed by this analogy -- because the child knows as a memorable fact that their parents were the ones who taught them.
well, interaction with deity seems to be a bit of a collective recollection of our species, doesn't it? what race or culture has never had some kind of supernatural element in their religion?
i dunno. it was just a thought, and an analogy to explain what the way i see it. it might not line up perfectly.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 05-16-2005 11:48 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 05-17-2005 11:59 PM arachnophilia has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 47 of 301 (209482)
05-18-2005 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Mr. Ex Nihilo
05-17-2005 11:59 PM


Re: my perspective.
Maybe a better way of stating it was that, although I thought there was some good possible insights in God's so-called "hidden nature", the analogy seemed to have its limits when believer/child similarities were contrasted in more detail.
well, of course. all analogies have shortcomings.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 05-17-2005 11:59 PM Mr. Ex Nihilo has not replied

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