To atheists: Why do you help me?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
Following my attacks to Harun Yahya, some Muslims have tried to stop me by implying that evolution always lead to atheism. One even asked me this:So, if you are a good Muslim, you would not spread evolution, as this is the core of their anti-religious disbelief system.M: This is a fallacy as not all atheists are practicing scientists and of those not all are interested in or necessarily know much about evolutionary biology. It is also a fallacy to call agnostics or atheists "practicing" a disbelief system. How do you practice not believing in a religion you don't believe in? It also suggests atheism/agnosticism are a cohesive monolithic organization which is a popular myth I have seen coming from fundamentalists whether they be Christian, Muslim, etc.Can you think of a person who believe in God firmly, yet at the same time spreading a thought that undermine belief in God with the help of disbelievers in God?M:
Darwin, Galileo, most modern biologists etc etc etc. Do you think it is possible for agnostics and atheists to come to you voluntarily and sincerely to help you understand and, thus, strenghthen your belief in God, or help in spreading the truth about God which is repugnant to them?M: Stupid argument. Why would a religious person seek to strengthen their belief in their god by consulting people who do not believe in their god?Do you think they rush toward you because they think you are spreading the truth of evolution which will make people know more about evolution and, thus, believe more in God?M: This sentence makes no sense. The goal of science is not to "believe more in god". You should suggest they first figure out what science is before they rush off with these bizarre conspiracy theories.If you do not want to answer these question, or if you have no answers to these, you have to ask them these questions. You have to pose these question to those agnostics and atheists who are helping you if you really sincere in your cause. If you do your activities for the sake of Allah, you have to ask these questions to them.M: This assumes that they actually speak for Allah themselves. For all they know you are the newest prophet and Allah speaks through you via science. They have no way to test or disprove that. Thus, your word and your religious observance is just as valid as theirs.Andya:
He/she asked it, so I present the questions for you to answer. I also invite the non-atheists to comment.M: I find the entire message from him/her completely bizarre. They seem to think (much like christian fundamentalists) that science is somehow a giant conspiracy to destroy their religion.Andya, you seem to be having lots of battles outside the EvC forums Cheers,
Mammuthus

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Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
Anyway, tomorrow is the start of Ramadhan, the fasting month. We Muslims will refrain from eating, drinking, and having sexual intercourse from sunrise to sunset for a month. A local custom here among Muslims is that we seek forgiveness from our acquaintances the last day before Ramadhan. Allah will forgive our offenses to Him if we observe the fasting month, but forgiveness from our sins to other people can only be obtained from those people. Therefore, if I had done anything that offended anybody in EvC: Percy, Moose, Quetzal, John, Mammuthus, TB, Peter, SLPx, P.Borger, Schraf, Gene90, Mark24, Nos482, Delshad, Budikka, Fred Williams, and others I cannot remember right now (sorry!), I ask you for forgiveness.

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Peace to all of you!

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Peace to you to Andya...and you have never offended me in the least. I always enjoy reading your posts and interacting with you.Best wishes,
Mammuthus

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
Mammuthus,
Although 'hai' uses English his e-mail hints that he's (my suspicion that 'hai' is a male) his words and other e-mails strongly remind me of Catur Sriherwanto, the translator of 'Evolution Deceit' into Indonesian and a scientist working for the Indonesian Dept. of Agriculture improving (evolving) teak for plantations. As I have told you, atheism is considered evil in Indonesia; so I suppose if 'hai' uses the argumentum ad atheism to stop me tearing Harun Yahya to bits, he is trying to appeal to the all-Indonesian fear of being atheist in me. He pointed out that Dawkins the arch-evolutionist is also hostile to religion, and Darwin could not keep even a deistic faith after discovering the principles of evolution.
*****************************++I would still say that is their own personal interpretation and it is because THEY want power over you as all fundamentalists do. Darwin was a christian and beleived in god. Most evolutionary biologists would probably be more like you than like me actually (since I'm atheist). You see evolution as a mechanism used by god and I know others who think the same way regardless of whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish etc. Studying evolution and being religious seems to not cause conflict except among the extreme fundamentalists..however, the same fundamentalists also hate womens rights, freedom of speech, believe some ethnic groups are inferior to others and above all, they each claim that they are the ultimate authority on what god says. I would not be swayed by these people if I were you. Being and evolutionist does not make you an atheist by default. I stopped believing in god long before I started studying biology.A:
Actually in the Muslim world there is a conviction that Allah had revealed His Word in the Qur'an and in nature also. The Qur'an is written for the believing, while His word in nature is for all humans to see and examine. As I see it you've been reading His words in old mammoth DNA .M: My mammoths are being rather resistant to reading the last couple of months A:
Our religious leaders encourage young Muslims to think that being a scientist is a respectable profession (however, this appeal never work and 'the Muslim scientist' remains a rare species). So in this context I can say that Muslims believe that studying nature can lead to strangthening the belief in God.M: Your last paragraph would make a wonderful counterargument to what your opposition is proposing. They either have to claim that they know more than your religious leaders or they have to admit they are wrong.A:
However, 'hai' seem to force me into thinking that evolution and theism can never be reconciled. Now I have wild thoughts about Allah planting His signs in nature to force scientists to believe that he does not exist... at least that is what I think of the effects of Harun Yahya and 'hai' to me.M: That sounds like their desired effect...make you doubt yourself, claim that you are all alone, and claim they have the ultimate authority..I hope you will not be swayed by that.A:
Maybe. If you guys battle local creationists then my battle is international (I'm in Jakarta, those guys in Turkey). Can I get a special status or anything? [just kidding]M: Hey that's true...maybe there could be a medal for those who battle the most creationists on the most sites Maybe a free copy of the Darwin Awards Best wishes,
Mammuthus