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Author Topic:   Why omnipotent is a paradox.
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4090 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 18 of 70 (41332)
05-26-2003 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by TechnoCore
05-24-2003 8:50 PM


Excuse me for jumping in here without a lot of information and presenting a conclusion, but this whole topic sounds insane to me. Let's assume our omnipotent God is of the same system as the universe, because obviously we are talking about a God that interacts with the universe, and Technocore defines that as the same system.
What, pray tell, stops God from knowing himself and the universe completely? TechnoCore says someone did some math to prove it. I'd like to know at least the reasoning behind this supposed math. I suspect that whoever pointed out that such math only applies to certain systems is exactly right, because math is not nonsensical.
Anyway, I don't believe for a second that there's mathematical proof that an omnipotent/omniscient God is a contradiction. But, if there's something more than an assertion based on some vague math that exists out there somewhere, I'm willing to hear it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by TechnoCore, posted 05-24-2003 8:50 PM TechnoCore has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by NosyNed, posted 05-26-2003 2:16 AM truthlover has not replied
 Message 20 by TechnoCore, posted 05-26-2003 9:18 PM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4090 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 22 of 70 (41430)
05-26-2003 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by TechnoCore
05-26-2003 9:18 PM


quote:
My point is that a system can't be described within itself, since where whould the information to describe it reside? There simply is no room for it. To fit in the description you must enlarge the system. When you do that the system is changed.
So? So the system is changed. So the information to explain that system now has expanded the system? That doesn't make the explanation, which has now been added to the system, unknown.
Even in a computer program, you can add a manual to the program nowadays, and that manual can describe everything, including the manual.
The whole thing's silly, in my opinion. If an omniscient God knows the whole universe, his knowledge of the universe is not some addition to the universe that is beyond his knowledge, which is basically what you just said, if you are applying what you said to the universe and God.
Anyway, maybe if you read that book Crash recommended, then you can come up with some incredible argument I'm missing, but this one just isn't working.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by TechnoCore, posted 05-26-2003 9:18 PM TechnoCore has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 05-27-2003 1:58 AM truthlover has not replied
 Message 24 by TechnoCore, posted 05-27-2003 8:46 AM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4090 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 27 of 70 (41504)
05-27-2003 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by TechnoCore
05-27-2003 8:46 AM


Well, Techno, I guess we'll have to leave it at that. I don't really agree with what you said, but to answer I'd just say what I already said, because I didn't agree with your responses, no matter what you claim Goedel says.
Since I don't know how to take that any further, I'll just drop it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by TechnoCore, posted 05-27-2003 8:46 AM TechnoCore has not replied

  
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