How about teaching evolution at Sunday school?

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Church is an institution of faith. People go there to worship and learn about their religion. There is a distinct differenbe between this and public schools.

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I completely agree with this (who'd a thunk it, hunh?). I think our friend Peter was being ever-so-tongue-in-cheek with his OP.

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The problem is not that the public schools are refusing to teach about creationism, but they are specifically attacking it. I agree with the seperation between Church and State, however, public schools should change the presentation of their science curriculum.

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This, on the other hand, I have something of a problem with. I assume you have some reference that shows that creationism is being specifically targeted in public schools (as this could ALSO be considered a violation of Church-State separation)? Please note that one example does not a trend invoke - to make this more than a baseless assertion, you're going to have to show that "creation-bashing" is both pernicious and widespread before the accusation would stick.Secondly, although I agree that evolution is badly taught in a lot of schools, you may be confusing the reasons. I NEVER received any in evolution in high school, although it was a long time ago. And the only HS biology curriculum that I'm familiar with that includes a great deal of evo bio is the international baccalaureate program in biology. At best, it is very poorly represented in most high school texts that I'm familiar with (which is not an exhaustive list or all-inclusive). In what way should public schools "change their presentation"? Are you proposing something like Johnson's "theistic science"? Just curious - and a topic for a different thread (with a bow to the Great Adminmooseus, long may he wave).

Hee, hee. Never thought of it that way, but you're probably right. Who'd of thought anything good would have EVER come out of Hollywood? Couple that with most of the programming on the various Discovery Channels, a lot of which is put out by those evil atheists at the BBC, and what chance does some poor child have of ever learning the Truth?

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I formed my opinion after attending public schools. Try to discuss creationism with a publich school teacher. Immediately their face will well up with fear and they adopt the "deer in the headlights" look. I never once could get a teacher to talk about it (which I found odd since I was always trying to debunk it).

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I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that this was the case. There are probably numerous reasons for it, however. One of the primary reasons is that the overwhelming majority of science teachers simply don't have the detailed backgrounds needed to address creationist assertions. Secondly, even a trained biologist may never have framed the knowledge they have in those terms (my daughter's biology teacher is an example - good science teacher, MS in biology, but never had to deal with or even think about creationism). Third, although I admittedly have nothing but anecdotal evidence, they may be in some cases terrified at the possibility of losing their jobs in some school districts that have a vocal minority of parents who would take offense at a teacher who appeared to "attack" the faith of their children. I'd say most high school science teachers would prefer if the question never came up - and are hence unable to address the issue when it does. "Deer in the headlights" is probably a pretty good description.Now if it were ME, on the other hand...

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Generally everthing in public school is poorly taught. I do agree with your statement about evo biology, however, I can remember being in third grade and taking a field trip to a museum. My class was informed we were descendents of apes complete with the little ape to man poster on the wall. I really have not made any conclusions as to where my origins lie (evo or creation). I try to keep an open mind, however, i'll be damned if some scientist is going to tell me i'm nothing more than a very smart poo-flinging monkey.

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Well, I'd say it probably depends on the school, but I won't argue with your point - I don't have the referents. On the other hand, how about: "we're nothing more than a very smart primate that has learned not to fling poo...".Facetiousness aside, what is your objection to the realization that we are completely natural organisms in every sense of the word - an inseperable part and parcel of the incredible diversity of life on this planet? I think the idea lends a certain majesty to the whole existence thing. It certainly gives us bragging rights, as well as explaining all those really unpleasant aspects of our behavior...

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GOING OFF-TOPIC ALERT!

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Adminnemooseus

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Yepper. And interesting reading it is too. Although you can read the whole thing on line, I'll just repost some of the relevant bits from Pope John Paul II's 1996 Message ON EVOLUTION to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences: Whoohoo! Go John Paul! Can’t ask for better than that. However, reconciling that statement with the whole spiritual thing needed a bit of squirming about. Also, the following proves it had to have been written by a Jesuit, who as everyone knows can argue the rust off a lump of iron ( ): Okay, so evolution is okay for all those other bits — or even all those other animals — but the Catholic Church hereby reserves to God the creation of mind. Mind didn’t evolve, ‘cause if we really squint our eyes and reinterpret Aquinas, and the whole part about in His image, that’s what he was talking about. So there. Translation: Desperate times require desperate measures. Science can’t observe souls or the spirit — so we hereby proclaim that they exist and differentiate humans from everything else. Prove that they don’t, nyah nyah. Of course, this all sort of begs the question as to when God did the soul-implanting during human evolution, which even the Catholic Church can’t deny happened. I’d be curious as to where, in the line from Dryopithecus to Homo sapiens this supposedly occurred. However, for an attempt to retain some shred of credibility, the address isn’t bad.[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 10-16-2003]