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Author Topic:   Will you oppose to scientific conclusions if they'll lead to theology?
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5192 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 43 of 112 (187429)
02-22-2005 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by mike the wiz
02-21-2005 6:48 PM


Re: But God Did do it !!!!
As has been said elsewhere ‘clinically dead’ doesn’t mean ‘brain dead’. OK in effect it does, but in actuality there can still be brain activity in ‘clinically dead’ patients, but no where near enough to keep the patient running if they weren’t on machines. So there is a good chance that someone classified as ‘clinically dead’ might still have a few neurons firing in their head and who knows what that will be perceived as?
If you have a bonfire and in the morning you survey the ashes you would say it was out, or dead, no more fire. But if you give the ashes a poke and look in side there can frequently be a few glowing embers yet remaining.
Unless you scan the brain of a dead/clinically dead patient with CT and MRI scanning you can’t say for sure absolutely ALL activity has ceased. So if you can’t say for sure that there is absolutely no brain activity you can’t make a claim for this kind of experience.
Even if you do manage to accurately ascertain there is absolutely no brain activity at all for any period of time, you can’t prove that the experiences remembered by the patient were actually experienced during the period of recorded total inactivity.
Human perception of time flow and events can become distorted and confused, especially under extreme stress and I would be hard pressed to identify a bigger stress than death.
The only way you cold prove that humans can perceive events post actual death (zero brain activity, not just ‘clinical death’) is to scan a patient to see if there is even the slightest activity, if not, if there is absolutely no brain activity, at any level then try reading them a unique piece of text. If they re-awaken and can recall the text there might be a case for OoBE and NDE experiences. Otherwise you can’t rule out the chance that there is still an extremely low level of activity that is giving rise to these perceived experiences.
My money would be on there still being some level of brain activity however slight in all cases where patients came back and reported an experience. And if there is any level of activity then they are not totally dead and thus you can’t claim a consciousness separate from the brain/mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by mike the wiz, posted 02-21-2005 6:48 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5192 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 61 of 112 (188046)
02-24-2005 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by mike the wiz
02-24-2005 6:13 AM


Re: God is a serious issue to most people on earth
... nearly everyone on earth believes in God....
sorry, it shoud be "nearly everyone on earth believes in a god/gods of some description"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by mike the wiz, posted 02-24-2005 6:13 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5192 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 65 of 112 (188066)
02-24-2005 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by mike the wiz
02-24-2005 8:25 AM


Ohnhai writes:
sorry, it shoud be "nearly everyone on earth believes in a god/gods of some description
Moot point. I have only referred to God, in this argument, as a conception atleast. 90% of the world believe in God, according to the definition I provided from dictionary.com.
not so,especially in the light of the following
In general; Please don't equivocate with GOD. We all know to whom I refer.
It is clear when you say 90% of the world believes in God you are meaning your god, as indicated clearly by that last sentence.
Religions by Adherents
as you can see Christianity in all it's guises is only around 33% If combined with Islam and Judaism it only just scrapes past 50% so you can not justify a figure of 90% for god when you clearly admit it's your god you refer to.
Just under half the world doesnt believe in your god. That's a bit diferent from "... nearly everyone on earth believes in God...."
and as to the "At Least 90%" the total figure for those of a religious bent is closer to 86%

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by mike the wiz, posted 02-24-2005 8:25 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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