Evolution is a religion. Creation is a religion.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christian1:
...Evolution is a RELIGION,

---

You may say ...Evolution is a plastic soap dish - if it please you, but that doesn’t make it a plastic soap dish.
Please do not get this mixed up.

quote:

---

If you have proof of evolution "a scientific experiment, in a complete form with facts and without doubts or other theories" I'm going to tell you [ insert Hovind’s dishonest & worthless offer ]

---

Proof refers to mathematics. Shall we discuss science instead ?

quote:

---

Those of you who believe in God and Evolution should watch Dr. Hovind's videos which can be found on the "money link" or even read and understand the bible. The mear fact that evolutionists chalk their religion up as being "science" is painfully mistaken, there is no proof or science experiment that supports the theroy of evolution.

---

Proof refers to mathematics. Please do not get this mixed up. and Hovind knows even less about REAL science than you know of spell checkers.

quote:

---

I've seen the bible proven to be acurate time and time again

---

Like Pi = 3 ?
You’ll have to show me your work first.How about when Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime ?Matthew, 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Matthew, 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.Matthew, 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.is THAT ‘proven to be acurate [sic] time and time again’ ? That’s some pretty sloppy standards of accuracy.

quote:

---

and untill it is proven wrong, I will continue have my beliefs as a True Christian and creationist.

---

and apparently even after it’s proven wrong.

quote:

---

And keep in mind that God created "TIME" as well, proof is spoken in the book of genius.

---

Book of Genius, eh? Written by the same genius that could create a universe, destroy the earth with a global flood but couldn't drive out the valley people because they had chariots of iron?Judges, 1:19
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.Makes me wonder what His reaction would be if the valley people had Buicks instead.You're set, buddy. Keep up the denial, it’s working for you.regards,jeff

​

[This message has been edited by Jeff, 02-12-2002]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christian1:
Evolution and Science do not mesh, Science is Evolutions worst nightmare. Evolution is a belief such as Creation.

---

You’re making this claim illustrates a lack of familiarity with science. Evolution is based on evidence. Evidence you apparently find difficult to discuss. Do you think that by simply dismissing the evidence with a wave of the hand, you are actually refuting it ? How can you refute without first acknowledging it ?

quote:

---

Can you prove that Evolution is acurate, can you prove it with science, please...
no more theories about why Evolution is true. Ok next point.......

---

You are now addressing points that no one made. Please show me where anyone made this claim.
Can you comprehend the difference between claiming:
‘evolution is true’ -and
‘evolution is supported by evidence’ ?

quote:

---

Proof refers to mathematics. Shall we discuss science instead ?
[reply] No, Science and Math work hand in hand, hmmmm, was I talking math? I could have sworn I was talking about Evolution, Science, and Creation. This is a phrase used to deter you for the orignal question. Can you prove Evolution with science which what Evolution is claimed to be?.....hmmmmm... next point....

---

Theories are NEVER proven. They can only be DISPROVEN — or falsified.
Why do you insist that science provide PROOF ? You ever hear of the ‘blood from a stone’ analogy ?
Science has no proof — merely tons of evidence, which you still have never addressed.Do you intend on ever addressing our pointsor is this as good as it gets ?

quote:

---

Proof refers to mathematics. Please do not get this mixed up. and Hovind knows even less about REAL science than you know of spell checkers.

​

[reply] My ability to spell is completely irrelivent as evolutionist's abilty to lie become irrelivent to them when they are attempting to prove thier theory is SCIENCE...... next point.... ::tired::

---

Fair enough. I’m a lousy speller, myself and I rely heavily upon the spell checker. My point was, Hovind’s objections and even his challenge do not address real science. Hovind needs a ‘science-checker’ the same way I need a spell-checker. He’s mistaken and apparently oblivious to that fact.And speaking of tiredcan we drop this PROVE IT crap ? Or is this your best method of AVOIDING the evidence that you find so troubling ? Running away will not help your cause.

quote:

---

I've seen the bible proven to be acurate time and time again

​

Like Pi = 3 ?
You’ll have to show me your work first.
[reply] work? God already showed you his work

---

I never said I doubted God. I doubt the Bible. There’s a BIG difference, my friend.
Actually, the Bible asserts that Pi = 3 when our understanding of mathematics evaluate Pi at approx. 3.1415926535897932384626434
Your work I requested was your PROOF that Pi = 3. (we can use the ‘P’ word in math)

quote:

---

, look around, this didn't just....HAPPEN!! oh yeah, "POOF"....LOL

---

POOF ? That’s more or less a description of the creation events in Genesis, unless you can demonstrate the MECHANISMS employed by God to create everything. Otherwise, POOF is the story YOU are sticking tonot science. Science explores the mechanisms responsible for evolution. Scientists can’t investigate POOF.
That’s Hovind’s domain.

quote:

---

How about when Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime?

​

[reply] which life? not time, don't be confused.

​

Matthew, 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

​

[reply] some of you will be saved, some will not. hmmmmmmm. mabye?

---

What ?!? Are you trying to ‘interpret’ scripture to me ?
Tell us why do you feel the need to CHANGE it’s LITERAL meaning ?
Perhaps then you’ll tell us how YOUR interpretation is the ONLY possible one. Then explain the clear message in these verses:Matthew, 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.Matthew, 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass , till all these things be fulfilled.How will you re-interpret the word ‘generation’ ? Or maybe you can twist the meaning of the word This ?
NahFulfilled is an easier word to spin to support your agenda.

quote:

---

is THAT ‘proven to be acurate [sic] time and time again’ ? That’s some pretty sloppy standards of accuracy.

​

[reply] has the second coming happened yet? Which generation is being refered to? The generation of man? The generation of man after the first coming of Christ? hmmmmm.....sloppy?? if you say so.

---

Oh, I see. You can’t make any sure sense of it either. If you say so Now that you mention it, it’s meaning is NOT very clear at all. It makes for great potential to spin a different meaning as needed.
I was thinking that He meant the generation of those he was preaching to. Ya knowthe people listening ?
Those Apostles ?? .like Matthew ?

quote:

---

and untill it is proven wrong, I will continue have my beliefs as a True Christian and creationist.

​

and apparently even after it’s proven wrong.

​

[reply] LOL, when has creation been proven to be wrong?

---

No one made such claim at this message board. Do you hear voices ? .all the time ??
I’m sorry. You seemed to have forgotten the topic that YOU brought up. Allow me to refresh your memory: you said I've seen the bible proven to be acurate time and time again
We were discussing the abundant errors in the Bible, not whether creation happened.

quote:

---

When has Evolution been proved to be right?

---

Answer: never.
Tired, already.

quote:

---

If it was proved right, why does Dr. Hovind still have his $250,000 in his pocket?

---

Uuuhhmmm.because he commits tax fraud on a yearly basis ??? I dunno. He seems to have no problem exploiting your sincere beliefs & faith. He probably steals it then lies on his tax return.

quote:

---

He also invites to prove him wrong. Who gave you the right to obilish Creation? Where is your proof? If I'm sorry, mabye next time.

---

No one is attempting to ‘obilish’ creation.
The point being discussed is: What is science ? and what is NOT science ?
And what will be presented in a public school science class - AS SCIENCE ?My interests are keeping religion out of science class. I could care less about your beliefs outside of public schools. They do not impact me in the least.
Why not discuss comparative religion in a social-studies or a literature class ?

quote:

---

Book of Genius, eh? Written by the same genius that could create a universe, destroy the earth with a global flood but couldn't drive out the valley people because they had chariots of iron?
Judges, 1:19
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

​

Makes me wonder what His reaction would be if the valley people had Buicks instead.

​

[reply] Did you interperate this as though to say the Lord is weak? Are you assuming that the Lord attepmted to drive them out? After reading more of this chapter, I interperate it as though the Lord with with Judah while Judah was doing this.

---

Yeah, I guess this is the same lord that brought plagues to Egypt, parted the Red Sea and stopped the Sun in the sky with Moses and Joshua.
With all this Omnipotence, why did He balk at some Neolithic Volvos ?
So how else should it be interpreted ? You’re the expert.

quote:

---

You're set, buddy. Keep up the denial, it’s working for you.

​

regards,

​

jeff

​

[reply] You are attacking me, and what I say.

---

Well, I have challenged your baseless assertions, but I never recommended you expose your religious beliefs to the scrutiny of science and the ridicule of non-believers. I would hold my spiritual beliefs with higher regard than you. Why not keep your faith and your science separate ? You admitted your self that they don’t mesh.so why bother ?

quote:

---

I still don't see proof.

---

Nor shall you ever see ‘PROOF’. Nor shall you ever understand scienceapparently.

quote:

---

And don't use the bible to try to prove the bible wrong. That will never work!!!

---

You mean you find it unpleasant. But I don’t doubt it won’t work. You’ve already placed yourself beyond reason and logic. Must be why the Bible appeals to you so much.Kind regards,Jeff

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christian1:

When you are stuck with the question of unknown answers, ask your self.... Do I believe everything I see on TV? Everything I read? If the president of the US told me to give him my underpants, would I conform? From everything you've shown me, I can not believe that we came from a rock, or that we just "poof" became. I was created, so were you. God made time for you, now MAKE TIME FOR GOD!

---

Is this it ? You have been reduced to preaching in a debate ? So you’ve been cornered by the facts, see no way out but to circle the wagons and lead us in a revival.
Halleleuya !So now I must wonderis THIS the material that should be discussed in a science class ? Is this what you’d teach in place of science?

quote:

---

When you are stuck with the question of unknown answers

---

Why should anyone presume that science or religion can answer all questions ? It takes a mighty ego to pretend you know all the answers. I’m too humble to share that soap box with you. But it makes me wonder
Do you believe everything you see on TV ? Everything you read ?So far, all your recommendations urge people to ‘believe’ rather than think. Hardly a suitable subject for science.
So what about all the scientists at work: Biologists, Physicists, Geologists and Astronomers that may one day provide a medical break throughor a more efficient energy source ?
should they all quit their jobs ? Should ALL scientific endeavors cease ?Wellif you have all the answers, why should we bother funding science ? An inquisitive nature is vice.
Just stay fat, dumb and happy.Some of us can’t live that way.So, if you refuse to discuss the topic, provide evidence for your position — could you at least address this question ?If you were put in charge of a school’s curriculum,
WHAT material would you present to a science class to support creationism — WITHOUT making reference to the Bible ?Regards,jeff

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christian1:
I think your belief is stupid because there is no proof only what you believe is evidence.

---

Talk is cheap. Prove it. [b] [QUOTE] I'm sorry that you think that my mind isn't open and that I've been brainwashed. I stringly believe that infact you are the ones who've been brain washed. I don't fear science. You ask me for something you your self do not provide, [/b][/QUOTE]And what would this be ? Are you referring to the evidence we’ve provided — which you cannot address ? or even acknowledge ? If you don’t fear science — THEN DISCUSS IT, already. Otherwise, go run an hide away where scary-old-science can’t bother you.Here’s one you can ponder:We live in a material, physical, natural universe. We observe naturally occurring events all the time. Through study, we have come to understand a great deal of how the universe operates. So far, science has only been able to detect natural events and causes. We have never encountered or detected a supernatural event.We hope that you can now share with the world, it’s first evidence of the supernatural.So what have you got to oppose all that we KNOW about the material, physical universe ?Answer: Beliefs.Are you going to argue that we have no ‘proof’ that the universe exists ? Will you argue that this universe is not physical ? Will you demand we PROVE that life occurs in nature ? ( look there’s a tree ! It popped up naturally ) Will you deny that we can touch, taste, smell and hear MATTER ?The material, physical universe is self evident. Science is the discipline that seeks to understand the material, physical universe. Science is sadly incapable of detecting, qualifying and quantifying the ‘super-natural’.So which explanation needs ‘belief’ in the intangible and which is based on evidence ? [b] [QUOTE] .and then attack me when I provide you with the same as you provide me.
[/b][/QUOTE]That’s a lie. Are you comfortable telling lies ? It’s getting so you don’t even know when you’re lying anymore.
What evidence have you provided to support your position ? Show me where you posted supporting evidence at this MB or live with the fact that you are dishonest and a hypocrite. [b] [QUOTE] I would definately say that I do have an open mind, and I also think reasonably.
[/b][/QUOTE]You’re joking, right ? Do you really think asking science to PROVE this,.to PROVE that is reasonable ?
If so, you have no clue of that which you oppose. You have no idea what science really is if you demand PROOF.Can you tell us why you continue to remain willfully ignorant ? Even after you were advised that science is not in the PROOFing business ?What if I said:

quote:

---

The Bible is worthless because I can’t use it to catch city busses on time ! And I don’t like that part where Jesus and Moses are hanging out telling naughty jokes to married women while they smoke crack. And what about that Job guy. I hate him for crucifying Noah inside that whale next to the Bower of Tabble.

---

Tell me, does the Bible really say all that ?
Now wouldn’t you soon be tired of my misrepresenting the Bible ?
Wouldn’t you think I was beyond willful ignorance to voice these erroneous claims
again
and again.
and again .
.after you’ve corrected my mistakes for the 30th or 40th time ?How can one rebut a strawman argument ? It’s not even what the Bible says, so why worry about refuting it ?Well this is what you continually do with science. You misrepresent it by claiming it cannot do something for which it was never meant to do. [b] [QUOTE] Evolution is based on beliefs with no proof,
[/b][/QUOTE]Translation: I have no idea, what so ever, what science really is but I’m going to punish you all with my breath-taking ignorance of the subject because: - I fear that, which I do not understand [b] [QUOTE] the fact that you believe in it makes it a religion. The fact that you cannot accept any other option makes you religious.[/b][/QUOTE]Yet another lie.
I can accept any RATIONAL explanation provided there is evidence to support it. I will stand by the best explanation we have. And if a better one comes along, I’m on board !! [b] [QUOTE] The reason Evolutionist's refuse to admit that thier belief is religious is becase it would not be able to be taught in schools, [/b][/QUOTE]Prove it.
Actually, the only reason you pretend science is a religion is because teaching your fairy tale is outlawed in the schools.
This would a case of sour grapes. [b] [QUOTE] and would be thrown out on to the street the same as you have tried to do with God. Evolution is attempting to erase God. [/b][/QUOTE]Prove it. Show us where & how science is attempting to erase God. If you can’t, it’s another lie upon a lie upon a lie.do you ever tell the truth ??
BTW- how could an Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent being be erased ?
Is HE THAT fragile ?? [b] [QUOTE] I'm sorry, God is going to erase Evolution. ...I wouldn't recommend attempting to engage in a debate with him.[/b][/QUOTE]No one wants a debate with God.
The debate is with your childish interpretation of Genesis. — NOT with God.Kind regards,jeff