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Author
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Topic: Evolution != Atheism (re: the Rejection of Theism in Evolution)
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 3 of 178 (170250)
12-20-2004 6:32 PM
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Damn I seem to get a lot of mention in there. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4 by Jazzns, posted 12-20-2004 11:06 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 81 of 178 (175022)
01-08-2005 11:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Tal
01-08-2005 9:41 AM
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Re: Evolution vs. creation
What possible connection is there between Evolution and a belief or non-belief in GOD? Why do you present the two as though they were related, that you must believe in one or the other?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Tal, posted 01-08-2005 9:41 AM | | Tal has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: What did Christ think?
Sorry but that's simply not the case. Jesus quoted the OT in the same manner as he used parables.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: What did Christ think?
I find no indication in the Bible that Jesus considered the OT to be literally true. He used references to parts of the Torah and Tanaka just as he used parables. For example, consider the parable of the two houses. Does it matter if there was, or was not, two houses, one built on sand and the other on bedrock? No!
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Talmud discussions.
To understand Jesus' discussions with the Pharisees you need to understand the Talmudic tradition. It's time for you to stop and examine the Talmud (I know that's far too much for most folk to consider and don't expect you to become a Talmudic Scholar but rather to understand what is being done.) Jesus is using analogy and it doesn't matter if it is a literal reference or not. In the same discusssions Jesus goes on to talk about a donkey falling in a ditch on the sabbath. It doesn't mattter if that is true or not, it's simple a "what if" and example used to underscore an position. Take some time and at least read part of the Talmud to get a feel for what was happening and you'll gain a better understanding of what Jesus is saying.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Would you consider a Bishop of the Church as Christian?
see the title.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Ruling out
Sorry but most of the US Christian Churches disagree. That's why almost every major faith has come out in support of teaching the TOE and in opposition to teaching creationism. Some of the faiths that have taken a firm position are,
- the Episcopal Church.
- the Roman Catholic Church.
- the Lutheran Church.
- the United Methodist Church.
- the United Presbyterian Church.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
Yes, many people take that position. But if you examine the Talmudic Tradition you'll find that is a completely erroneous assumption. What You quote:
Another example is Jesus saying: "As Jonah was in the belly of a great fish for three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights" This quite clearly shows that Jesus believed the scriptures, refering to Jonah, to be an actual historical account, and he interpreted them as such. What is there in that statement to show he considered it to be true as opposed to an example? This message has been edited by jar, 06-10-2005 01:01 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Ruling out
Be happy to. You can find links to their positions and those of many other organizations here.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
Correct. He used a familar folktale. There is nothing to show that he considered it a true story. It is like a parent using the tale of what happened to Hemelin.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
No!
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Ruling out
Yes!
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
Saying that Genesis is not literally true is the correct Christian thing to do and say. To teach that Genesis is literally true is simply teaching ignorance. While someone may believe Genesis is true and accurate, that is simply wrong. That is the fact!
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
So you say, but as I have shown you, most Christian Churches disagree with you. A literal interpretation of Genesis is blasphemy, a direct insult to GOD's gifts. If you do believe that what is written in Genesis is true, you are not, I repeat not, a Christian.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Talmud discussions.
Yes, and sadly you gave a list of mainline churches that are now ordaining gay bishops and ministers. So what does that tell you? That they understand the message of Christ. Someone who oppresses Gays is not a Christian but a bigot.
Genesis is the foundation of every biblical doctrine: Genesis is an attempt by people moving from Nomad to Farmer to explain the world using HOW as they imagined it to explain the Why. Those who try to treat it as a literal description of HOW are simply ignorant and promoting ignorance. Reliance on Genesis as a literal description is both bad science and lousy theology. It is simply wrong to continue pushing ignorance on helpless children and that's what so many so-called Christians are doing today.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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