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Author Topic:   Picayune Gods & Those Who Market Them
Percy
Member
Posts: 22620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 121 of 153 (912490)
09-06-2023 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Phat
09-06-2023 9:30 AM


Re: Jesus red and Jesus blue
Phat writes:
Good news! Ive been sober 34 days now from compulsive gambling! According to experts, it will take a long time to heal from this damage. Sometimes I think that my prefrontal cortex was addicted to chaos and crises as well as slots and action.
You have strong self-destructive tendencies. It's a near certainty that as you're giving up gambling you're substituting some other self-destructive behavior, who knows what. Chewing tobacco? Opioids? On-line shopping?
Some addictions might be better than others. You could try becoming addicted to work or exercise or sex.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 09-06-2023 9:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Theodoric, posted 09-06-2023 6:01 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 122 of 153 (912496)
09-06-2023 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Percy
09-06-2023 2:47 PM


Re: Jesus red and Jesus blue
Or actual learning.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Percy, posted 09-06-2023 2:47 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2603
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 123 of 153 (912500)
09-07-2023 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Percy
09-06-2023 2:40 PM


Re: Fear Of Authority
Percy begins to fail here:
Phat writes:
The United States corrupted the whole concept of organized religion through the fake preachers, weak churches, and the ill fated marriage between politics and religion which tore out our true heart.
The best I can say about this is that it's grammatical. It fails completely as a description of anything in the real world.
Fake preacher Joel Osteen? Ms. The_USA_is_a_Christian_Nation Boebert?? Not real? Maybe not what was on Phat's mind when he said that the United States corrupted it, but it seems a correct outlook. Texas Republicans want it.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Percy, posted 09-06-2023 2:40 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 09-07-2023 7:46 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 124 of 153 (912501)
09-07-2023 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by xongsmith
09-07-2023 1:49 AM


Re: Fear Of Authority
Maybe I misinterpreted him. When he said "United States" did it I assumed he meant the U.S. government did it. If he'd said that it happened in the U.S. I'd have had a different interpretation.
AbE: The reason I assumed he meant there was a bad actor (in this case the U.S. government) causing the bad outcomes is that he usually thinks in terms of conspiracy theories.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by xongsmith, posted 09-07-2023 1:49 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 125 of 153 (913277)
10-21-2023 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Percy
09-06-2023 2:40 PM


Re: Fear Of Authority
Percy writes:
I think you lost the right to call yourself a Christian long ago.
How would I regain that right? Some suggest that in order to do so I need to "give it all up". Others would simply tell me to be more Christlike--more loving and empathetic to the poor and unfortunate.
Percy writes:
Your God is an absentee Father.
I tried to make sense of this but need more information. Are you speaking of the roots of my anger and sense of entitlement?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Percy, posted 09-06-2023 2:40 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Percy, posted 10-22-2023 10:46 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 126 of 153 (913279)
10-21-2023 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
09-01-2023 9:42 AM


God vs Allah vs Human Rights
Percy writes:
My political wind vane isn't left/right but democratic/anti-democratic and sane/insane.
We would likely agree that war is insane. If not, when is it ever sane?
Look at this link. As China strengthens ties with Russia, the Israel-Hamas war deepens their divide with the U.S. The thing that gets me is that Hamas was the instigator and aggressor in this conflict. Both Russia and China are on the U.N. Security Council and both are opposing both the U.S. and Israel. Ordinarily, that would not be new news.
Yahoo News:
While President Joe Biden has emphasized U.S. support for Israel, condemning Hamas’s brutal Oct. 7 attack and backing “restrained” retaliation by Israeli forces, Presidents Xi Jinping of China and Vladimir Putin of Russia have taken a different approach.
In a broadly similar response, the two leaders have condemned attacks on civilians, urged a cease-fire, and offered to mediate, while failing to explicitly condemn Hamas.

One would think that Israel's main sin was in denigrating the Palestinian people as being somehow less refined than themselves. One needs only to remember that Israel was born right after the Holocaust and that they fought 4 wars to keep their land. The Palestinians refused to even attend negotiations for including Israel in the Middle East. How could anyone expect them to entertain it now? Moreso, how could anyone expect Israel to give them even more land after what Hamas terrorists did?
In light of this topic, is religion involved? If so, how can rationality prevail?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 09-01-2023 9:42 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 1:51 PM Phat has replied
 Message 132 by Percy, posted 10-22-2023 10:51 AM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 127 of 153 (913282)
10-21-2023 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
10-21-2023 12:35 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
One would think that Israel's main sin was in denigrating the Palestinian people as being somehow less refined than themselves.
Is that what you call 3 generations of social repression? The slow calculated ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian peoples and their culture from Israel is considerably more than denigration. It is genocide.
That a people so mistreated and so blatantly abused and murdered, as were the European jews, to then be given a country where they practice similar horrors on the indigenous population requires the evil of religion to sustain.
This war is specifically a religious war. All the resource and political-greed spats only line the path of constant war among the Abrahamic religions.
One needs only to remember that Israel was born right after the Holocaust and that they fought 4 wars to keep their land.
Revisionist bullshit. It wasn't their fucking land! They fought four wars to subjugate a captive population in rebellion against their European invaders/oppressors.
The Palestinians refused to even attend negotiations for including Israel in the Middle East.
There have been plenty of international discussions over the decades. All of them end with Palestine being told they have no choice. They must stop their resistance and submit to Israel's security demands which include absolute control over all resources and movements in all territories. Moves that slowly strangle the Palestinian identity.
That is what is happening here. Palestine is being slowly, deliberately pushed to extinction. When a subjugated people rebel they die by the hundreds just like every other day. Nothing changes.
In light of this topic, is religion involved? If so, how can rationality prevail?
Oh, Phatman. Do you really doubt? This is the crux of all religious thought. I have special privileges because my god has the bigger dick.
There is no rationality. There can be no rationality. This is religion. It is a serpent. The only way to deal with it is to kill it.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:38 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 128 of 153 (913287)
10-21-2023 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by AZPaul3
10-21-2023 1:51 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
How do you propose killing religion? "It" gets stronger in hard times.
Palestine's God is a God of Righteousness and perpetual hate and anger.
Israel's God is a God of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
The U.N. itself could likely kill neither of them.(The Gods) If you think it's tough to talk sense into Hamas, try telling Israel that they must share and not control. They would fight the entire world for their right to exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 1:51 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 129 of 153 (913288)
10-21-2023 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by AZPaul3
10-21-2023 1:51 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
AZMarxist writes:
Revisionist bullshit. It wasn't their fucking land!
Nor is Arizona your land. Would you fight to stay there or would you pack up and find a friendlier state?
Both the US and Britain have made it clear that Israel will stay put forever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 1:51 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2023 4:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 130 of 153 (913291)
10-21-2023 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
10-21-2023 3:47 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
Thus Palestine will cease to be. The Palestinians become the new jews.
The jewish lament that maybe god should go find some other chosen people for a few centuries may be coming to pass.
Even 3000 years later, that old religion still poisons humanity.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 3:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 131 of 153 (913295)
10-22-2023 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Phat
10-21-2023 12:06 PM


Re: Fear Of Authority
Phat writes:
Percy writes:
I think you lost the right to call yourself a Christian long ago.
How would I regain that right? Some suggest that in order to do so I need to "give it all up". Others would simply tell me to be more Christlike--more loving and empathetic to the poor and unfortunate.
Lose your racism and your insensitivity to human suffering.
Percy writes:
Your God is an absentee Father.
I tried to make sense of this but need more information. Are you speaking of the roots of my anger and sense of entitlement?
Isn't this from another thread?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 12:06 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 132 of 153 (913297)
10-22-2023 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
10-21-2023 12:35 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
Phat writes:
The thing that gets me is that Hamas was the instigator and aggressor in this conflict.
Israel's antagonistic treatment of Palestinians for decades (Israeli West Bank settlements, Gaza itself) is a constant instigation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 10-21-2023 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 12:05 PM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 133 of 153 (913318)
10-23-2023 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Percy
10-22-2023 10:51 AM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
4 wars were started against Israel. Does that count? *pause*
OK let me think and respond rather than reacting... *takes deep breaths...*
I feel strongly about this topic because I have traditionally believed what I was taught about Biblical Israel being Gods chosen people. None of you know the teaching in the context of how I know it largely due to the fact that it is a critical part of Christian Apologetic s. You all have heard the term Judeo-Christian. From the Christian perspective, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was most certainly not Allah. From a personal perspective, however, I believe that ther is but One God who actually exists within the realm of belief on this planet. Critics will of course say that He just so happens to be the God I believe in, the Father of Jesus Christ.(Born of a virgin and all that.) The revisionists and mythicists among you will carefully point out your findings on the fallacies of the virgin birth and of how the Bible was authored, edited, redacted, and "sold" entirely as a product of man. Largely because of the fact that you are not believers in the traditional sense in which I was taught, reinforced through numerous Pastors, teachers, and friends.
AZPaul3 is staunchly anti religious. He talks of "it" (the whole thought/belief process as a sociological poison infecting the otherwise rational humanistic minds of modern man.
AZPaul3 writes:
s that what you call 3 generations of social repression? The slow calculated ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian peoples and their culture from Israel is considerably more than denigration. It is genocide.
That a people so mistreated and so blatantly abused and murdered, as were the European Jews, to then be given a country where they practice similar horrors on the indigenous population requires the evil of religion to sustain.
I can see the argument and follow the support behind it. I am not simply blindly pro Israel, even though your boy Joe Biden publicly reinforced the idea this past week as he hugged the tearful Israeli leaders and sat coldly with the Palestinian leader in his shuttle diplomacy which failed to quench the fire that is this war.
Throughout the tradition of what is taught in my group of organized religion, the perpetuated belief has been the idea that Jesus would return. Before this event happened, according to our reasoning based on scripture, God would allow humanity every possible opportunity to redeem itself and shake off the shackles of a colonialist,warlike, and privileged past. I grew up in the most prosperous country on earth. I grew up in a time of relative calm and prosperity unmatched by any civilization in History.
Of course we all knew---believers and non believers alike, that the world was facing some major challenges. Human population was approaching a time when this planet would no longer be able to support us in the lifestyles to which we were accustomed. In my mind, and in my experience, religion has been both good and bad but, regardless of ones opinion on the matter, belief is here to stay. For the martyrs in the world, it takes them to their graves.
Percy writes:
Lose your racism and your insensitivity to human suffering.
I'm working on it. Hopefully you will keep my feet to the fire whenever I react rather than respond thoughtfully.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Percy, posted 10-22-2023 10:51 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 10-23-2023 12:39 PM Phat has replied
 Message 135 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2023 1:23 PM Phat has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22620
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 134 of 153 (913319)
10-23-2023 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
10-23-2023 12:05 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
Phat writes:
4 wars were started against Israel. Does that count?
Are you really justifying the argument, "You started four wars against us, and that therefore justifies our ongoing profoundly inhumane treatment of your people."
Israel doesn't seem to understand that treating Palestinians inhumanely is extremely unwise longterm policy for them. Israel is itself responsible for breeding each new generation of terrorists, a process fed by the poverty and hopelessness of places like the West Bank and Gaza.
Arguments like the ones you're advancing are why people repeatedly question your humanity and the sincerity of your Christian charity. The Palestinians are people, human beings, and they deserve to be treated as such. The U.S. is a massive enabler of Israeli policies that victimize Palestinians. Israel has lost its soul. In opposing terrorism they have become no better than the terrorists they oppose, and we are their biggest supporter. We have as much shame to bear as Israel.
For far too many decades the U.S. has weighed the threats of the region and decided we wouldn't allow our support of Israel to be affected by their crimes against humanity. Humane treatment of the Palestinians has never been a condition of our support.
Meanwhile the Gaza death toll continues to grow, and Israel has increased operations against Palestinians on the West Bank, increasing the death toll there, too.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 12:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 1:23 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 135 of 153 (913320)
10-23-2023 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
10-23-2023 12:05 PM


Re: God vs Allah vs Human Rights
An eye for an eye until all the children are blind or dead. But JC and all that justifies it I guess.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 12:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 10-23-2023 1:24 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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