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Author | Topic: The War in Europe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
As you were, nothing to see here...
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
And Wagner is apparently going on, even recruiting again.
Prigozhin is talking but no words on where he is - or Putin. There’s a video of Shoigu - the Defence Minister that Prigozhin wanted out - but it may well have been recorded some time earlier. Situation still unclear, we don’t know what Prigozhin and Putin are playing at,
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
According to Colonel Douglas Macgregor, a controversial yet well learned conservative,(Ph.D in international relations) is controversial and outspoken on the Russian Ukrainian conflict. He claims that Ukraine cannot win the war no matter what they do despite massive US and NATO support unless NATO gets directly involved.(which would lead to escalation) Wasn't Wagner initially on Russias side as hired mercenaries? If so, I suspect that this whole 180 degree turn by Wagner is in some way staged and is a form of propaganda to convince the world that Ukraine will win and that it is Russia who is nearly finished.
Some of you have mentioned that the conservative playbook is to spread fear rather than patriotic (and unified) optimism regarding the course of such a war. If so, Macgregor is doing his job for the conservatives, but I might point out that he is no country bumpkin with an opinion. In his opinion (he has written several books) Putin never intended to conquer all of Ukraine but simply consolidate the annexed provinces into Russia...UNTIL his army got bloodied and beaten, at which point Putin used superior Russian artillery and missiles to destroy Ukraine. (Ukraine's population has dropped by at least a third since the war started) Trump liked him and as I peruse his bio, I can see that he has been labeleda racist, anti Muslim, and anti immigration type. Quotes such as this one support that: Wiki:The Wiki article exposes his public gaffes and racist/nationalist comments. So why do I listen to him? What if he is right? What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine? Maybe dwise1 can help me with this one. He is ex-military and not a far right conservative.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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He seems to be wrong on some important points.
Putin was originally out to annex the entirety of Ukraine. Kyiv was the major target of the initial assault but the convoy stalled out on the way there. The Wagner rebellion looks more like an internal dispute. It’s hard to see what the Kremlin gets out of it, other than a smack in the eye for Putin. And the quote you offered looked pretty far right to me.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: Some of you have mentioned that the conservative playbook is to spread fear rather than patriotic (and unified) optimism regarding the course of such a war. If so, Macgregor is doing his job for the conservatives,...... Wiki: Yep, you're right, Macgregor is just another conservative scaremonger. Could you please stop rummaging around in your echo chamber? Anyone claiming to have even just a fair idea of how the Ukraine war will end is wrong. No one knows how this will end or what will happen before it ends. I hope most people are hoping for a free and independent Ukraine rather than for outcomes, no matter what they are, that will give them a political advantage. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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He is a racist. Case closed. So not surprised you listen to him.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Theodoric writes: He is a racist. Case closed. So not surprised you listen to him. From his Wikipedia page:
Wikipedia: There's plenty more. He sounds like a guy who has extreme and baseless ideas, who is wrong a lot, and who likes to make attention-getting claims and statements. Phat, congratulations on finding another racist, xenophobic, warmongering nut. Would it be too much trouble for you to at least take a glance at someone's Wikipedia page before you start promoting their extreme and/or cockamamie ideas here? That is, unless those are the ideas you yourself want to promote. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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He posted the wiki page. He does not care and embraces these assholes.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Percy in Message 952 writes: Phat, congratulations on finding another racist, xenophobic, warmongering nut. Would it be too much trouble for you to at least take a glance at someone's Wikipedia page before you start promoting their extreme and/or cockamamie ideas here? That is, unless those are the ideas you yourself want to promote. Considering that the vast majority of what Phat posts promotes that bullshit, that is exactly what he himself wants to promote!Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I should have addressed this part of your post more directly:
Phat writes: The Wiki article exposes his public gaffes and racist/nationalist comments. So why do I listen to him? What if he is right? "What if he is right?" can be used about anyone saying anything. Please stop using the weakest of reasons for introducing garbage into threads. In fact, stop introducing garbage into threads altogether.
What if the war in Ukraine never gets won by Ukraine? Yeah, that's kind of a major issue in this thread. Any thoughts of your own? --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I asked:
quote: Percy writes: Yeah, that's kind of a major issue in this thread. Any thoughts of your own? I just want to know the truth. I hear more than one narrative and I dont simply trust the presidential press secretary or the news that I hear. If Macgregor is an echo chamber for the far right agenda, who or what is to say that the powers that currently be don't have their own agenda and narrative? Why can't the government and current administration have an agenda of their own? Is there only one story? Is Zelensky the Saint he is made out to be? Is he in fact a "good guy"? One of "us" ? And the 64 thousand dollar question: Who IS us? Who does the peanut gallery represent? And who do they oppose?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: He could easily be an echo chamber for the Kremlin. He wouldn’t be on Russian media unless he was supporting the Russian line.
quote: He doesn’t have to be a Saint. He’s a darn sight better than Putin, and he’s got the courage to stand up for his country, even at the risk of his life. Isn’t that enough?
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric writes: One critique of many modern colleges is that over 90% of the professors vote for the same political party. If someone has said anything racist in the past, you cancel them and dismiss any academic credibility that they may have.
He posted the wiki page. He does not care and embraces these assholes.Tanypteryx writes:
As soon as this war started, the majority of the peanut gallery was in lockstep and all agreed Considering that the vast majority of what Phat posts promotes that bullshit, that is exactly what he himself wants to promote!to staunchly oppose Czar Vladimir The Condemned. I never questioned that since it appeared that Putin was in fact the aggressor. Now I am exposed to another narrative that tells me that Putin never wanted to go hard and eliminate Ukraine but that his generals did. Ive also heard an alternative narrative that states that Zelensky is no Saint and that this war is only being supported by NATO due to the military industrial complex, the assets of Ukraine, and the fact that the Western belief is that everyone on earth has a right to freedom. But at what cost? And how did Prigozhin turn 180 degrees against Putin? I smell a rat. Percy writes: Explain what sort of political advantage "they" would gain and who "they" are? Anyone claiming to have even just a fair idea of how the Ukraine war will end is wrong. No one knows how this will end or what will happen before it ends. I hope most people are hoping for a free and independent Ukraine rather than for outcomes, no matter what they are, that will give them a political advantage. It couldnt be Trump. The system is closing in on locking him up. There are, after all, at least two political parties globally as well as nationally. Why must only one be kept in power? More to the point, why is there only one answer?
Percy writes: I suppose that you want me to throw away all that I hear that "sounds right" or that strikes an emotional chord. Yet the bleeding hearts claim that the poor Ukrainians are worthy of support. Could you please stop rummaging around in your echo chamber?I say its because Ukraine is valuable to NATO. We wouldnt be sending much support to a backwash like Yemen!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat, given that it's now possible to find "alternative facts" about absolutely anything at all, how would you go about trying to work out what is most likely to be correct?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. |
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