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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9265
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1096 of 1127 (918171)
04-22-2024 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 10:26 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
That is not one of the questions.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 10:26 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1097 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 10:53 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1097 of 1127 (918173)
04-22-2024 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1096 by Theodoric
04-22-2024 10:40 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
You asked for it, retard.
Volodymyr Struk
Executed/killed as a Mayor.
Member of Party of Regions
You said he was off-topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1096 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2024 10:40 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2292
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 1098 of 1127 (918174)
04-22-2024 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1081 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 8:06 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Russia is involved
,
Because Putin wants to reclaim the borders of the USSR. Go eat a potato Ivan.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 8:06 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1099 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 11:39 PM DrJones* has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1099 of 1127 (918175)
04-22-2024 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1098 by DrJones*
04-22-2024 11:30 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Why did endless Ukrainian witnesses feel Putin was more interested in halting NATO expansion?
It scares me to think you really feel the borders of the USSR are an issue.
Scary.
Now the facts:
Putin is o.k. with western Ukraine (possibly even Eastern Ukraine) joining the E.U.
Putin wants the residents of Eastern Ukraine to decide if they want to be independent or join Ukraine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1098 by DrJones*, posted 04-22-2024 11:30 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1100 by DrJones*, posted 04-22-2024 11:55 PM LamarkNewAge has replied
 Message 1106 by Taq, posted 04-23-2024 10:46 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2292
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 1100 of 1127 (918176)
04-22-2024 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1099 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 11:39 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Why did endless Ukrainian witnesses feel Putin was more interested in halting NATO expansion?
who gives a fuck as to what Putin wants? he doesn't get a vote on NATO expansion. His actions have actually increased the membership of NATO anyways, so good work there master strategist.
Putin wants the residents of Eastern Ukraine to decide if they want to be independent or join Ukraine.
again who gives a fuck as to what Putin wants, the internal affairs of Ukraine are none of his business.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 11:39 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-23-2024 12:03 AM DrJones* has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1101 of 1127 (918177)
04-22-2024 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1092 by Taq
04-22-2024 8:35 PM


Re: Mayor Volodymyr Struk Mayor HENNADIY MATSEHORA
Mayor HENNADIY MATSEHORA, also spelled Gennadiy Matsehora.
Mayor of Kupiansk.
Feb 27,2023
Peacefully surrendered his town of 27,000 to save lives.
Ukrainian troops, previously abandoned Kupiansk, and went 70 miles northwest to defend Kharkov.
Ukraine bombed main bridge, when leaving, to slow down Russian troops.
But mayor Matsehora showed Russian army another route.
Mayor gave video address to residents from city hall. He said everything would be safe and normal, surrender is better than death and destruction. Peaceful cooperation was necessary. "If refused, the city would be attacked with all the consequences". Only the geopolitical situation would change, and the Russian flag would fly.
Kupiansk had no "bombardment, no violent mayhem", according to Dec 12, 2022 LA Times article, The Ukrainian mayor made a deal with the devil - and lost (David Phinney).
L A Times: "the deal with the devil may have saved civilian lives"
The Ukraine government called him a traitor on Feb 28
Ukraine liberated Kupiansk on September 9th, 2023.
Matsehora is a wanted man, and missing.
He was forced to fight and not cooperate, by Ukraine. Russia simply required him to do nothing, while hoping a peace process can start - soon?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1092 by Taq, posted 04-22-2024 8:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1108 by Taq, posted 04-23-2024 10:53 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1102 of 1127 (918178)
04-23-2024 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1100 by DrJones*
04-22-2024 11:55 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
Ukraine has a security service that kills peaceful "traitors" that fled to Russian soil.
Ukrainians are executed even if they fled to Russian
Ukraine kills former parliamentary members, who fled.
This world works in a way that human beings in a neighborhood matter.
Especially nextdoor neighbors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1100 by DrJones*, posted 04-22-2024 11:55 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1103 by DrJones*, posted 04-23-2024 12:15 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2292
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 1103 of 1127 (918180)
04-23-2024 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by LamarkNewAge
04-23-2024 12:03 AM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
This world works in a way that human beings in a neighborhood matter.
which is why we should support Ukraine while they're being unjustly attacked by Russia, glad to see you've taken putin's cock out of your mouth and come around to the side of freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-23-2024 12:03 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1104 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-23-2024 12:25 AM DrJones* has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2463
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1104 of 1127 (918181)
04-23-2024 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1103 by DrJones*
04-23-2024 12:15 AM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
You want to force peace-loving Mayors to be hyper-nationalistic.
Ukraine essentially jails or executes political opponents.
A Mayor is required to get civilians to fight, kill, or be killed, or be declared a traitor.
Ukraine is a nationalistic nightmare.
People aren't allowed simply to love their home, town, neighbors, etc.
They must fight for a bullshit nation, or be killed.
Ukraine is an example of the evils of nationalism.
(I don't blame the President of Ukraine, necessary, because he not only has a nation with a right wing security apparatus, but the imperialistic western powers are clearly calling the shots)
(Witness only the actions of the disgraceful United States Congress, for evidence of the accuracy of that statement)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1103 by DrJones*, posted 04-23-2024 12:15 AM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1107 by Taq, posted 04-23-2024 10:50 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 1110 by Phat, posted 04-23-2024 2:57 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1105 of 1127 (918189)
04-23-2024 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1093 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 9:46 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
My biggest gripe with you is that you seem to feel that the available evidence indicates that Russia wants to take-over Ukraine.
Russia marched their military over the Ukraine border and towards Kyiv. What more evidence do you need? When you march your military into another country and towards the seat of government you are taking over a country. Period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 9:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1106 of 1127 (918191)
04-23-2024 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1099 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 11:39 PM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
Why did endless Ukrainian witnesses feel Putin was more interested in halting NATO expansion?
Putin was interested in halting NATO expansion.
Putin felt more secure when he had a Pro-Russian puppet government in Ukraine. When that government was kicked out with the ousting of Yanukovych it set in motion the invasion we see today.
Putin has a puppet government in place in Belarus. Not surprisingly, that is the country that the Russian military staged its invasion of Ukraine. That part of the Russian border is under Russian control. The Ukranian border was not under Russian control, so that is why we are seeing this invasion. The next on the list are NATO countries, such as Poland and the Baltic nations. Poland is especially important because it controls the Suwalki Gap, a strategic chokepoint that controls access the the plains of Russia.
It scares me to think you really feel the borders of the USSR are an issue.

Scary.
Then Putin should scare you because he does think the Russian border is an issue which is why he is either exerting his control over the nations that border Russia or invading them if he can't directly control them.
You simply don't understand Russian history. Russia has been conquered 50 some odd times by nomadic hordes and other powers. Why? Because the only worthwhile part of Russia, the plains surrounding Moscow, are wide open and undefendable. This fact is burned into the very DNA of all Russians. How do you solve those problems? You push out until you hit a handful of strategic chokepoints and put your military in those gaps. Where are those gaps? One of them is in Ukraine. Another is by Crimea which is why Russia has already invaded and taken over that chokepoint. Others are in European countries that used to be part of the USSR, and Putin wants control over those chokepoints. Everything Putin has done over the last 15 years is in service to taking control of those chokepoints.
Putin is o.k. with western Ukraine (possibly even Eastern Ukraine) joining the E.U.
That's not up to Putin. It isn't his country. Why do you speak as if Putin owns Ukraine?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 11:39 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1107 of 1127 (918192)
04-23-2024 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1104 by LamarkNewAge
04-23-2024 12:25 AM


Re: Foreign Affairs (first 15% of artcile)
LNA writes:
You want to force peace-loving Mayors to be hyper-nationalistic.

Ukraine essentially jails or executes political opponents.

A Mayor is required to get civilians to fight, kill, or be killed, or be declared a traitor.
Citizens are required not to conspire with an invading force. It's called treason, by the way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-23-2024 12:25 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1111 by ChatGPT, posted 04-23-2024 3:31 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1108 of 1127 (918193)
04-23-2024 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1101 by LamarkNewAge
04-22-2024 11:59 PM


Re: Mayor Volodymyr Struk Mayor HENNADIY MATSEHORA
LNA writes:
Mayor gave video address to residents from city hall. He said everything would be safe and normal, surrender is better than death and destruction.
So you are saying that Ukrainians are being killed by Russians unless they cooperate with them?
He was forced to fight and not cooperate, by Ukraine. Russia simply required him to do nothing, while hoping a peace process can start - soon?
Just the opposite. The mayor had to cooperate with the Russians by showing them a different route or be killed. In fact, Russians have killed many mayors in Ukraine. Russians have also purposefully killed 30,000 Ukrainian civilians.
And you think the Russians are the heroes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1101 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-22-2024 11:59 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 1109 of 1127 (918200)
04-23-2024 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by AZPaul3
03-12-2022 1:53 PM


Two Years Later
From Message 318
AZ in March 2022 writes:
The attack did not go well for Tzar Vladimir the Condemned. The resistance, the West's response, the depth of the economic damage, and most importantly, his utter humiliation before the world by an upstart comedian in Kiev and that geriatric has been from Washington.

I feel a sense of confusion and loss from Putin. He may be looking for a way to declare victory, yank ~most~ of the troops, and then go to his dacha a pout. But there isn't a way out. He has to kill Ukraine or kill Russia trying. The glory of Tzar Vladimir the Condemned as restorer of the Great Russian Empire demands this.
Here it is two whole years later. What's going on over there now?
Biden vows to 'quickly' supply new military aid to Ukraine
BBC:
Joe Biden has told Volodymyr Zelensky he will "move quickly" to send Ukraine fresh military aid after US lawmakers passed a $61bn (£49bn) support package.
The House of Representatives approved the bill on Saturday after months of political gridlock in the chamber.
Mr Biden promised "significant" support for Kyiv - including more air defenses - if senators approve the bill as expected on Tuesday.
(Today)
Personally, I think that Putin is still resolved to preserve at least a remnant of the old Soviet Union. The difference now between BRICs(led by China) and the old Warsaw pact nations(led by the Soviet Union) is exemplified by the method of warfare that is succeeding. NATO buried the Warsaw group led by a strong and vigorous United States. BRICs is limping along hoping to dethrone the dollar and win a financial victory over the West.
BBC:
Kharkiv has been targeted in relentless air attacks by Russian forces in recent weeks. In a social media post after the attack, President Zelensky wrote that it was "Russia's clear intention to make the city uninhabitable".
AZ writes:
As for the response of the west? What choices do they have? Economic squeeze or nuclear war. Not a lot of wiggle room in that one.
It appears that the military industrial complex is sending old weapons to Ukraine while building new ones for us.
AZ in 2022 writes:
I'm hoping Biden is smart enough to give Putin an out that gives him close to nothing without Putin setting off any nukes.
But, I fear that Tzar Vladimir the Condemned will take revenge and slowly extinguish the Ukraine while NATO can do nothing. He may tear at the very heart of the people just as one of his predecessors did in the Great Famine. And because of the nukes, and only because of the nukes, NATO can do nothing but watch. Well, I suppose they can bitch. More resolutions at the UN, less caviar in the store, that kind of thing.
That may end it. Who knows?
I fear that the long-range plan is to end the West and its monopoly on global finance...all without firing a shot. China is running the show now and they are very patient. They have problems and challenges too, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by AZPaul3, posted 03-12-2022 1:53 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by Taq, posted 04-23-2024 3:49 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 1110 of 1127 (918201)
04-23-2024 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1104 by LamarkNewAge
04-23-2024 12:25 AM


What is the Global Conflict Now?
You want to force peace-loving Mayors to be hyper-nationalistic.
NATO seems to prefer National(ism) You once commented that you were a lifelong Marxist. What do you see the issues between BRICs and the West as being?
Is it that old buzzword "imperialism"?
Is it the "white guys" vs the people of color globally?
Andy Schectman has a good talk on the motive behind the China Belt and Road Initiative...
BRICS Just Ingeniously Accelerated Its Financial System To Collapse The US Economy | Andy Schectman
AddbyEdit:
Try to curb the personal attacks on Forum members whom you dislike. You are about to get banned. Focus on the issues and not the opponents.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-23-2024 12:25 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1113 by ChatGPT, posted 04-23-2024 4:30 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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