taiji2's complaint

Since Omniverous has opened a thread with my member id in the title, it would be impolite of me not to respond.In making my responses, I will refrain from the sort of plain talk which Omniverous solicited from me before. That plain talk was offered in the context of one veteran having a conversation with another (that vet having requested plain talk}. It would be incorrect to take anything said there outside that context. It was a conversation between vets. I will not defend my language to anyone not a veteran.I shall make every effort to maintain civility. I will do that because that is what I would hope to find coming back to me.If I have learned anything during my time on this forum, it is that one should be careful in constructing a response to any post. With that in mind, I will take my time and reply to any who posts here, continuing until the conversation is clearly non-constructive.I erroneously posted this message as a response to GDR. It was meant to be a general response, not a response to GDR.... I will do that later. I know how to edit a post, but not how to retract it. Therefore, take this in explanation.Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.

You know Omniverous,My original intention, as stated, was to respond to everyone on this thread. I was going to try and work out perceptual differences and maybe go on with conversation on this forum. What happened instead is that I went out on the internet and looked at the world news. Not that looking at the news is a big deal, I do that from time to time. But it got me to thinking. Maybe the reason I wound up on this forum to begin with was an escape of sorts from the real world. A chance for intellectual discussion that did not involve beheadings, wars on many fronts in a dangerous world and all the crap I am sure you also watch on tv and can do nothing about.That got me to thinking of my own war. Our recent conversation had already brought things flooding back. The things hanging just on the outskirts of my consciousness that I have never been able to shake through the years even though I too have a wife, kids and grandkids. Call it playing the vet card if you like, but I have recurring dreams of the one human being I shot while looking him in the face. I have recurring dreams of flying over a grass hooch ville I had been ordered to call artillery on, and the woman running from one of those hooches with a baby in her arms. Every time, I remember that, I get the same chill up my spine I had that day when it struck me I was probably killing women and children. I did a check fire by the way and stopped the shelling, But by the time I saw her who knows what I had done already.The point being, I got to thinking about what had gone on with this forum over the last week. Inane games that boil down to issues on that earthshaking thing called an internet troll. Really? I have done some truly horrific shit in my life. I just told you some of it. But being grilled as to the possibility that I am an internet troll? The idea of spending further energy trying to convince someone I am not this horrible creature called a troll of a sudden just made me realize how wasteful I had been with my time. I will hang around reading on the forum. There are smart people here and things I can learn. But the rest of it was something I shouldn't have done to start with and something I don't choose to continue.To everyone else. No harm done. It has been a learning experience for me and a very credible reality check. I will be listening to you but won't bother you again.
later

thanks herebedragonsYour tips are well-intended and taken as so. thanks. But this is their game, their rules. If I played their game as they do, it might change me in ways I wouldn't like. If i try to play their game, my rules, it is futile. catch 22.

Well Percy,
You keep coming back to this thing called evidence. You say I have no evidence. I say evidence is all around me. Who gets to define evidence? You? If that is your answer, I deny you that right.A logical debate should begin with a logical constraints on the issues. Show me support for the a priori assumption that only science gets to define evidence. That is the constraint you are presenting. Support it.I could, at this point, start making references to unicorns and start talking about whether this or that is absurd. I will not, because I have to reason to believe you might take that as inflammatory language designed to make references to your level of intelligence. I choose not to do that.

ringo,Your post raises even further my respect for you. Your insights on victory are wise.

Yes, Master Po. Please teach me!

Master Po,I have heard other students told "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". Is this something I should consider?

Coyote,
I selected Taoism after many years specifically because it has very little dogma. It allows the idea of a prime intelligence with the specific advice to not speculate too much about that intelligence (dogma). It allows a cosmological view that does not require faith in the non-existence of god (or whatever you choose to call a prime intelligence), which is where I am at. I chip away at nothing except unresolved questions in my own mind as to what is truth.I respect what you think as what you think. Please do not jump to conclusion on what I think.

No Percy,
That won't be necessary. After my last response to Coyote, the realization came to me that I am in a place I don't need to be. Since being here, I have wondered at the vehemence of attacks.Coyote's latest comments about me nibbling away at the edges of something brought it into focus. He seems to think I have an agenda. I have been quized on whether I was familiar with various dogmas associated with certain christian movements. Can't quote them without going back.I answered no. Guess that was not good enough.What I seem to have wandered into is a venue where a bunch of science folks are lying in wait to duke it out with specific christian folks over what boils down to being politically driven agendas. What is taught in schools was mentioned.I have heard talk about that stuff over the years through news and such. It was never an issue with me. Too many causes out there and causes just burn you out. I never was in such a crusade and don't want to be.I came in here out of idle curiosity and walked into a beehive that seems to be driven over an issue that doesn't concern me.I am here for my own pleasure only and my own intellectual stimulation. Coming into the middle of a political pissing match was not my desire and still is not my desire.I may yet join RAZD on the other thread because clarifying my notions of cosmology is important to me. I will think on that.A while back, I mentioned putting a more descriptive title on your threads and it just seemed to piss you off. In all honest sincerity, it the thread title had told me it was about a christian political movement, I would have avoided it.

ringo,
I consider you a friendly face here. Please look at my last post to Percy and give me your opinion and advice on whether I can find a thread for interesting and civil conversation. Something without the presumption of political overtones would be nice. the thread on proper pursuit of id has been suggested. Would welcome your thoughts.Edited by taiji2, : added stuff

Whoa sir,
This is an obvious failure of written communication. You have read emotional response where none exists at all. Honest injun and all that. Right now I am with less emotion about the whole forum affair than I have been since the first shot was fired.I am slow, but I finally realized you folks must have suspected I was some sort of christian mole out to make science look bad or something. I get it. I am not mad. I am not disappointed. I have no emotion but relief in thinking I know why things happened as they did.I am absolutely not strewing sour grapes.I don't want to be part of partisan discussions.If there is something else for me here, fine. If not that is fine too.Please don't read in things that are not there.Face to face, you would have taken what I said without any interpretation of emotional angst. Written, I run the risk of you reading it with whatever inflection comes to mind. You got the wrong inflection in this case that is all.Lastly, I did not read the public school thing coming into the forum. If I had, would never have posted. My mistake. SorryPlease chill a little. I am trying to untangle a mess.

Thanks for the clarification on the site.
I agree it is not where I need to be.Wow, such emotional turmoil everywhere.When Percy recovers himself, he can take my membership down.Thanks for the experience

Since Percy told me my membership cannot be inactivated except by me, I feel free to come back when I will. I will say what I think pertinent to say. I suspect that is not true and at some point he will push his button to shut me up, but only the future holds that answer.You people are pathetic. The Omniverous analogy to buzzards circling was much better than the one I gave for what goes on here so I will feel free to use it. Debate will never happen on this forum because you people are so busy throwing "rocks of insult and diversion" at people's feet, there leaves no time for debate.When I came into this forum, I had no dogs in the hunt over what to teach in public schools. That is fact. The circling vultures can do with this statement what they will. The point is moot and I will speak to that in the following paragraphs. I tell you though that what has gone on here has raised my sympathy for anyone who had such dogs and were coerced into conversation with you people.Although I still do not care to engage in the politics of what is taught in schools, my experience on this forum has led me to seek out the authors and forums (if they exist) of the people on the other side of this debate (use of the word debate already qualified). I intend to gain a detailed knowledge of the corpus of ideas I have been accused of being in possession of already.I will tell those people going into conversation that we seem to share a common idea.... that a creator brought something (existence, creation, everything) out of nothing (void, null, etc.). If they leave me in the conversation even though I am Taoist, I will participate in their discussions.My point in being in that discussion will be to ascertain whether they consider the natural laws part of creation. If I find they have never considered this notion, I will ask them why. I think the smart people on that side of the fray should be able to have a conversation on that notion.If they choose to include the natural laws and all the science derived from study of those natural laws within the power of their god to have created, they will then probably be tasked with seeking out the false conclusions of those attempting to present theory on the working of natural law as fact.The question you people here need to chew on is that if the natural laws in fact are a creation of god (or what ever term you wish to use), where does that leave your arguments? My conclusion is you are arguing from a microcosm.... you are the monarchs of Pointland to use an analogy.As to changing threads, I can think of no better thread title than taiji2's complaintHave a good day. I may be talking to you later.

wow, that was scientific.you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own?Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.

are you presenting a hypothesis?you didn't answer my implied question. What are you going to do when creationists claim natural laws as their own?Edited by taiji2, : No reason given.