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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Social Issues and Creation/Evolution ⇒

Age and Down Syndrome?

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Topic: Age and Down Syndrome?

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 20 of 76 (713950)
12-18-2013 11:32 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by PlanManStan
12-17-2013 4:27 PM

PlanManStan writes:

When would they have had all their children?

The Bible has relatively little to say about women having children. In some cases it is explicitly stated that men had their children with more than one wife; it's probably implicit in many other cases too.

PlanManStan writes:

Do you think this has any bearing on the fact that many biblical woman lived hundreds of years?

It wouldn't be a problem for anybody who was determined to avoid it.

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	Message 1 by PlanManStan, posted 12-17-2013 4:27 PM		PlanManStan has not replied

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ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 32 of 76 (714035)
12-19-2013 12:15 PM

Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:11 PM

Catholic Scientist writes:

When a gene is mutated, I don't see anything wrong with saying the gene has been damaged.

You do?

I do. At the molecular level it's a change. At the organism level it may be damage if it reduces the organism's ability to survive and reproduce.

It's sloppy terminology to just willy-nilly call it "damage".

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	Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:11 PM		New Cat's Eye has replied

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	Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:25 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 38 of 76 (714044)
12-19-2013 12:31 PM

Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:25 PM

Catholic Scientist writes:

So you've got some DNA, doing its self replicating thing... there's a string of genes coming through and then, whoops, a mistake is made and it isn't copied properly.

The thing is that some of those copying errors produce improvements in the organism. It's only the ongoing history of the species that tells us whether an "error" was "damage" or not.

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	Message 34 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:25 PM		New Cat's Eye has replied

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ringo

Member (Idle past 442 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 56 of 76 (714178)
12-20-2013 12:00 PM

Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:43 PM

Catholic Scientist writes:

If you damage the roof my car, but then it ends up going faster, I don't think there should be a problem with saying the roof was damaged.

I do have a problem with calling an improvement "damage". When a gene is changed we don't know if it's going to be an improvement or damage, so I think it's best to call it a "change".

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