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Author Topic:   Age and Down Syndrome?
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 1 of 76 (713900)
12-17-2013 4:27 PM


I've been snoopin' around on this forum, and it seems like no one is addressing the fact that, after a certain age, a woman's children have an increasingly high chance of down syndrome (about 50 is when it becomes significant). Do you think this has any bearing on the fact that many biblical woman lived hundreds of years? When would they have had all their children? It certainly couldn't be over 100 years old without having a down-syndrom-ed kid for sure. What do you think?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-17-2013 5:33 PM PlanManStan has replied
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 5:58 PM PlanManStan has replied
 Message 7 by nwr, posted 12-17-2013 7:47 PM PlanManStan has not replied
 Message 8 by Omnivorous, posted 12-17-2013 8:03 PM PlanManStan has replied
 Message 12 by NoNukes, posted 12-17-2013 9:56 PM PlanManStan has not replied
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 12-18-2013 11:32 AM PlanManStan has not replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 3 of 76 (713902)
12-17-2013 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
12-17-2013 5:33 PM


Re: Down Syndrome Babies & The Bible
Honestly, a combination of the two. Do people think this strengthens the validity of the Bible, or detracts from it? Either way, how?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 12-17-2013 5:33 PM AdminPhat has not replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 9 of 76 (713913)
12-17-2013 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
12-17-2013 5:58 PM


So what you are saying by "we developed new genetic diseases" is that we gained genetic material? Sounds like evolution. And the health of the mother is disregardable. My mom was perfectly healthy at age 40, but I still had a 30% (might be less or more, no idea, but around here) of having the big DS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 5:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 11:24 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 10 of 76 (713915)
12-17-2013 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Tangle
12-17-2013 6:19 PM


Well that would imply people are currently living longer, which they are and it is causing big problems, but what I am addressing is the supposed "valley" of age. Apparently living hundreds of years, dropping to as low as 30 years, and now beginning to rise again.

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PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 11 of 76 (713916)
12-17-2013 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Omnivorous
12-17-2013 8:03 PM


Quite Interesting
I've never heard that before. I might do my highschool project on this...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Omnivorous, posted 12-17-2013 8:03 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


(1)
Message 14 of 76 (713920)
12-17-2013 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
12-17-2013 11:15 PM


*raises hand* "uh, is that why the Muslim Empire rediscovered the ancient Greeks first and was miles ahead of Europe technologically for centuries?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 11:15 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 11:26 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 18 of 76 (713933)
12-18-2013 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
12-17-2013 11:24 PM


Yeah, and I meant to emphasize how little that mattered in this conversation. And when you say degeneration, do you losing genetic information, having the current info damaged, or what?
I also like how you contradict yourself by saying "it's not about the health of the mother". Well then why'd you bring that up!
By your logic, DS isn't even a genetic problem, but God punishing us? What, like how AIDS was God's way to get rid of homosexuals?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 11:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 12-18-2013 1:44 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


(1)
Message 24 of 76 (713990)
12-18-2013 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
12-17-2013 11:26 PM


What?
By our standards, Jesus was an Easterner. What is your point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 12-17-2013 11:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 25 of 76 (713991)
12-18-2013 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
12-18-2013 1:44 PM


There is no damage done by mutation, only change. And by no means were they healthier a long time ago! What? That is the biggest piece of BS I've heard in a long time. I mean, you can't even prove the fall, so how are you just assuming that it is true? I mean, if we inherited it from the fall, along with all other diseases, why do animals have many of our diseases (AIDS, etc.)?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 12-18-2013 1:44 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2013 4:14 AM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 27 of 76 (714013)
12-19-2013 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by NoNukes
12-19-2013 4:14 AM


No, no, you misread me (or I mispoke). There can definitely be damage done to the ANIMAL by means of a negative mutation, but I thought that Faith was talking about what physical damage to the genes themselves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2013 4:14 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2013 9:20 AM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 30 of 76 (714024)
12-19-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by NoNukes
12-19-2013 9:20 AM


Not neccesarily. Sometimes, yes, but that can also be indirectly harming the animal physically. That isn't damage, that is change that is not good. I'm confused what you mean. It could also not even qualify as damage, because in some cases (e.g. a peacock's tail feather length), it isn't damaging the organism, simply reducing how likely it is to reproduce. This is a pointless argument, as it is not the subject at hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2013 9:20 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:11 PM PlanManStan has replied
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 12-19-2013 1:05 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 33 of 76 (714037)
12-19-2013 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:11 PM


I do. "Damage" implies something has been altered from how it should work. Genes are "supposed" to work one way or another. Genes can change for the worse, but I don't like using a word like "damaged"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:27 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 36 of 76 (714042)
12-19-2013 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:25 PM


Oh yes it is! Look up the definition of damaged. What you described was change.

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PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 37 of 76 (714043)
12-19-2013 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:27 PM


It isn't the biggest deal, but to be clear, the "errors" that they commonly refer to are the errors in copying the DNA perfectly, not errors as in damaging the product.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:47 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3718 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 41 of 76 (714049)
12-19-2013 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by New Cat's Eye
12-19-2013 12:47 PM


That Google definition is worthless, because it says "inflict physical harm on [something] so as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function". "Normal" is subjective, and genetic mutations are not physical "harm", because again, harm is subjective. Remind me about why we are arguing this again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 12:47 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-19-2013 2:13 PM PlanManStan has replied

  
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