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Author Topic:   Are we all descendants of Adam and Eve?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 16 of 376 (707036)
09-21-2013 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Adminnemooseus
09-20-2013 2:38 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
Adminnemooseus writes:
and I thought the Bible study angle was more interesting, and something that hadn't been covered here much if at all previously.
because, from a bible study perspective, the answer is "yup, that's what the bible says."
the science angle at least has some debate. in accuracy/inerrancy, we could discuss whether or not what the bible says is accurate, mythology, or misread. but in bible study, the only reply can be "yes".

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 Message 17 by NoNukes, posted 09-21-2013 2:37 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 376 (707109)
09-23-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by NoNukes
09-21-2013 2:37 AM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
NoNukes writes:
You've argued enough with ICANT to know that things are not that simple.
i'm not convinced that ICANT knows anything. the last couple of times i debated with him, it devolved into spelling lessons.
ICANT might well ask you which Adam it is that you think we are all descended from.
while it's true that there seems to have been other people outside of eden, they're not especially relevant, because the only people who survive the flood are descendants of the people who came from eden.

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 Message 23 by NoNukes, posted 09-23-2013 5:10 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 24 of 376 (707128)
09-23-2013 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by NoNukes
09-23-2013 5:10 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
NoNukes writes:
That means that there is an Adam that none of us are descended from.
that's not exactly true either. there seem to have been other people outside of eden, yes, and that seems to have been where the wives of genesis 2/3's adam's children came from. so noah, and his sons, are also (in part) descended from the people outside of eden.
but that's still irrelevant to the question, as there would be no one alive today who is not descended from genesis 2/3's adam.

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 Message 26 by greentwiga, posted 10-21-2013 6:17 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1373 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 29 of 376 (709124)
10-21-2013 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by greentwiga
10-21-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Not sure what's going on ...
greentwiga writes:
Remember that there is a difference between what the Bible says and some people's interpretation.
yes, this is often quite true.
Notice that there are two Adams. Gen 1 has both men and women as Adam. Gen 2 has Adam as male alone.
which is why i was specific, above, to refer to "genesis 2/3's adam". they are both using the word generically, but in slightly different senses. genesis 2/3, part of an older document (J), has "the man" as a single individual, and a metaphor for the everyman. he's a specific case that's written to be read as a generalization. genesis 1, in slight contrast, is from a newer document (P) and probably intended to entirely replace the older account. gen 1's "the man" seems to generic from the get-go, and apply to women too. it doesn't seem to be a specific individual even in the literal account, like genesis 2/3 does.
If they are separate people (and in far separate times) then everyone is descended from Adam of chap 1, but only some are descended from Adam and Eve.
well, no. the genealogy still bottlenecks through noah, who is descended from seth, who is named for the fact that he replaced cain and abel, gen 2/3's adam's (and eve's) sons.
Similarly for the flood. The whole erets was flooded. It can be translated as earth, region or country. If it was region, then everyone in the region was killed, but others lived through it.
sure, but translation should take into account how the word has been used in the rest of the source (it has always seemed to mean the entire earth before it) and the implications and intentions of text. in this case, the implication and intention seems to be that yahweh is undoing his entire creation, by literally returning it to the primal chaos (water) that originated from. he is making the water above heaven meet the water below heaven.
now, some have understood J's yahweh to be a local god, which would mean his creation is also local. and i don't think they're entirely wrong. i just think that this only really extends to his people, and that the missing portion of J follows a somewhat similar outline as the version we currently have in P, because this basic outline matches canaanite, sumerian, and even egyptian cosmology. and henotheistic as J seems to be, i just can't see her actively attributing anything to any other god.
If it was region, you would expect that the Bible would mention that people discover an empty land to the east and move into it (Shinar/Sumer)
if it was the entire earth, the same would hold true.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

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