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Author
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Topic: Why do right?
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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Message 76 of 168 (380396)
01-27-2007 6:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by anastasia
01-26-2007 9:03 PM
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Re: correction
ana writes: It is a better reason than to do good just for yourself, What leads you to this conclusion?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 9:03 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: 03-24-2006
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Message 77 of 168 (380437)
01-27-2007 11:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by Larni
01-27-2007 6:49 AM
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Re: Right and wrong
damn. no wonder we're hungry all the time.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by Larni, posted 01-27-2007 6:49 AM | | Larni has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 78 by ringo, posted 01-27-2007 11:27 AM | | kuresu has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 78 of 168 (380441)
01-27-2007 11:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 77 by kuresu
01-27-2007 11:09 AM
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Re: Right and wrong
Kuresu writes: no wonder we're hungry all the time. quote:
"Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look,
He thinks too much; such men are dangerous." --From Julius Caesar (I, ii, 194)
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by kuresu, posted 01-27-2007 11:09 AM | | kuresu has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 79 of 168 (380467)
01-27-2007 12:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Larni
01-27-2007 6:40 AM
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Re: Right and wrong
Larni writes: We seem (as humans) to dislike usurping the rights of others as a general default position. However, this position is very easily reversed when we enter an emotional state. If we have malfunctions in our perception of our emotions (by even a slight degree - that may not show up until very specific situations occur) or the emotional pressure of the situation increases to a critical level we will act in a very selfish way. Well that explains why we have not yet evolved beyond Wars.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Larni, posted 01-27-2007 6:40 AM | | Larni has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by Larni, posted 01-27-2007 7:22 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4023 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: 06-08-2004
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Message 80 of 168 (380529)
01-27-2007 6:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 75 by Larni
01-27-2007 6:49 AM
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Re: Right and wrong
Thanks,mate
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by Larni, posted 01-27-2007 6:49 AM | | Larni has not replied |
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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Message 81 of 168 (380537)
01-27-2007 7:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
01-27-2007 12:36 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
Phat writes: Well that explains why we have not yet evolved beyond Wars. Yup,; I don't think we ever will.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Phat, posted 01-27-2007 12:36 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 82 of 168 (380548)
01-27-2007 7:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Larni
01-27-2007 6:40 AM
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Re: Right and wrong
Larni writes: This is a response to the common belief by some religious types that people who do not follow a gods laws has no moral compass. Oh, we know you have a moral compass. We believe God put one in everyone's back-pocket. It is called the Gift of the Knowledge of Right and Wrong. What we don't understand is what 'good' means to others. Good to me is God's plan. Good to you, seems to be your brain firing off signals. You have not really shown why your brain has those signals, only that is has them. They are your compass. They do not mean that good is only contained in your brain, only that this is where you can sense it.
We seem (as humans) to dislike usurping the rights of others as a general default position. However, this position is very easily reversed when we enter an emotional state. If we have malfunctions in our perception of our emotions (by even a slight degree - that may not show up until very specific situations occur) or the emotional pressure of the situation increases to a critical level we will act in a very selfish way. That is soooooo not the point. You have so far said that 'good' is a reaction to empathic signals in the brain, and that 'evil' selfish actions are the result of a different brain function. You seriously make it sound as if we had no CHOICE!!!!! Maybe I am going too fast for you, but do you sort of understand where this goes? If we have no choice, we did no wrong. We did no right. It is all 'good' since it is natural. THAT in a nutshell is why God-fearing people get nervous about this type of reasoning. I am sure you will never follow these thoughts to an extreme level, because your 'compass' is already installed no matter where you think it came from. It does not make the thought any more valid in itself, just more harmless.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Larni, posted 01-27-2007 6:40 AM | | Larni has replied |
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4023 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: 06-08-2004
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Message 83 of 168 (380574)
01-27-2007 10:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 82 by anastasia
01-27-2007 7:53 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
Until we reach the age of Crit-thinking, we are creatures of our upbringing--parental, extended family and friends, the society we live in, accumulated experiences. When you decide to reassess the strictures/beliefs/maxims you have used up till then, you should attempt Crit-think (which occurs at various ages from late teenhood (if you`re lucky) right through to your death-bed (if you ain`t),to determine for yourself whether you have been goosed or not. The we/you used above are the generic or royal examples. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by anastasia, posted 01-27-2007 7:53 PM | | anastasia has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 84 by anastasia, posted 01-27-2007 11:05 PM | | Nighttrain has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 84 of 168 (380578)
01-27-2007 11:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 83 by Nighttrain
01-27-2007 10:45 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
NightTrain writes: The we/you used above are the generic or royal examples. I have no idea what that means. Perhaps you can tie it to my post in a less-generalized way? Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by Nighttrain, posted 01-27-2007 10:45 PM | | Nighttrain has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by Nighttrain, posted 01-28-2007 5:00 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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Larni
Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: 09-16-2005
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Message 85 of 168 (380643)
01-28-2007 6:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 82 by anastasia
01-27-2007 7:53 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
ana writes: You have not really shown why your brain has those signals, I'm sorry Ana, but to look for purpose in biological systems is to put the cart before the horse. We can choose between to choices and lable one 'right' and one 'wrong' because of all of the previous examples of psychological explanation shown as to how the human brain works.
ana writes: What we don't understand is what 'good' means to others. Incorrect: all we have to do is ask and we will know what 'good' means to others.
ana writes: They do not mean that good is only contained in your brain, only that this is where you can sense it. Your brain can sense nothing at all. That is why we have specialized sense organs elsewhere in hte body (except for maybe the pineal gland, lol).
ana writes: You seriously make it sound as if we had no CHOICE!!!!! This point is already addressed:
Larni writes: People typically (with no biological motivation) do nasty things because they view it as a viable option when weighing up the cost/benefit equation. We each have a different equation in our head.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by anastasia, posted 01-27-2007 7:53 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 86 of 168 (380651)
01-28-2007 8:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 35 by anastasia
01-26-2007 12:34 AM
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quote:
I invite you to tell your future husband or wife that meeting them was just dumb luck. It is not that romantic.
No, it is very romantic. “Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.”
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 12:34 AM | | anastasia has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 87 of 168 (380652)
01-28-2007 8:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 41 by anastasia
01-26-2007 2:26 AM
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quote:
Why? WHY does it make you feel bad? You are not answering the question. Why does 'right' feel 'right', why does 'wrong' feel 'wrong'? Switch 'em as you like, but answer the question. If you are not afraid of God, why oh why be afraid of yourself?
Empathy. And empathy is a function of our brains. Studies of sociopaths have shown abnormalities in the parts of the brain associated with emotions and social and ethical judgement. So, we are wired, so to speak, to respond to social influence and to have an innate moral sense. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 2:26 AM | | anastasia has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 88 of 168 (380656)
01-28-2007 9:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 57 by anastasia
01-26-2007 1:32 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
There is what is right and wrong for me, determined by me, based on what makes me feel good or bad quote:
That is what I am afraid of You decide what is 'right'.
You have no idea if it is 'right' or not, and
no idea what is 'right' about it.
Just some little tinglies in your brain that 'feel good'?
So, should all of us feel "afraid" when you do the above, because you, and each and every other person on the planet, does exactly the same thing?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 1:32 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 89 of 168 (380658)
01-28-2007 9:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 62 by anastasia
01-26-2007 4:34 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
quote:
So, doing 'wrong' is some form of birth defect?
Stop moving the goalposts, ana. You asked "Why we feel bad when we do wrong", and Larni told you why.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 4:34 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 90 of 168 (380660)
01-28-2007 9:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 72 by anastasia
01-26-2007 9:33 PM
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Re: Right and wrong
quote:
Actually the more 'right' you are, usually the less selfish you are.
No, they could be considered the most selfish, since they are constantly looking to make themselves feel good by doing good things for other people.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 9:33 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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