A Deteriorating State :: Morality in the 21st Century

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Is religious fundamentalism bringing our moral system down faster than Agnostic beliefs can rebuild it?

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What examples do you have of religious fundamentalism actually bringing "our" moral system down?The group in the article is probably hurting their own cause because of their methods. Did they succeed in changing anyone's moral behavior?

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religious fundamentalism moves unchecked but for the few skeptical minds of an all-too-easily-convinced populace. Is it spreading too fast?

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What do you mean unchecked? Unchecked for what? What evidence shows you that fundamentalism is actually spreading?

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The students, the school officials, the news report, and I would imagine the general public all have shown a distaste for the message. Is this a sign of an improving morality for our nation and world, or is the mere existence of this group a sign of a worsening society?

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By going into a school under false pretenses, the group undermines their own message. They didn't stick to the program they promised. I think the existence of the group is par for the course. IMO, there are always going to be dissatisfied groups.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Maybe I misunderstood what Jon was saying (which seems to be par for the course); but when he said "bringing our moral system down", my impression is that he is talking about our current secular moral system actually changing. I didn't think he was talking about the behavior of specialty groups.

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God hates fags
Waco and Jonestown
Murder of doctors (after all abortion cheapens life)
Polygamy (Mormon and Islam)
Jesus (hell) Camp
Jihad
Honor Killings

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How have any of those things changed our current secular moral system for the worst?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Let me try this another way.What do you mean by bringing our moral system down?

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Everything always spreads.

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One of these days you will learn to stop making absolute statements. You know as well as I do that that isn't a true statement.What makes you feel that fundamentalism is a virus or is spreading?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Since you have a tendency to lump things together, people spend their time trying to understand what you have lumped together and try to help you realize that you shouldn't lump certain things together. Learn not to lump.IMO, nator wasn't making an argument. In Message 4 you asked the difference between liberals and religious fundamentalist, which you erroneously lump together. She tried to help you understand the difference. She showed one measurement that showed education made a difference. If you don't believe her, then do your own research. Learn. Don't escalate the situation away from the topic, which you did.Even by definition liberals (one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways ) and fundamentalists (a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles) are opposites. Not something to be lumped together.Please try not to create battles where there aren't any.Keep your repsonses in line with the topic.I still want to know what do you mean by bringing our moral system down?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

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...so too can we group liberals and religious fundamentalists as 'extremists/fanatics' in recognizing their equal levels of moral deterioration....

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When I said that liberals and religious fundamentalists are the same thing, I meant in terms of deteriorating morals”which is the topic of this thread.

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You're making excuses again. It is still incorrect to group liberals and fundmentalists together. You haven't shown that either group is responsible for deteriorating the morals of "our" nation or world, let alone equally. Yes, that is your responsibility since you are the one lumping them together.I agree with kuresu, all you're saying is that one group thinks another group is responsible for eroding morality.You haven't established what the morality for "our" nation and world is or what evidence makes you feel it is deteriorating. In Message 32 I asked: In Message 37 you responded: Jon, you need to start providing reasonable support for your comments before you create tension in this thread. There needs to be give and take for a satisfying discussion.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I would appreciate a response to my questions in Message 39.What do you mean by bringing our moral system down?What makes you feel that fundamentalism is a virus or is spreading?I will add, what morals do you feel the fundamentalists have actually changed for the worst in the past 10 years?

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz