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Author | Topic: How New Testament Fundi Christians Bless Atheists, Roman Catholics And Others | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Fundamentalist Protestant Christian Fundamentalists who promote the New Testament fundamentals have been among the majority in nations which are the most free, prosperous and blessed over all. The US has traditionally been the free place to which most immigrants have desired to go.
On the other hand, last century, estimates ranging from sixty million to a hundred million have been murdered by their own atheistic minded communist governments in Europe and Eastern communist regimes as well as Cuba. Atheists on this board like Cavediver and other apostates from fundamentalist Christianity have denounced the very ideology which has prevailed in this nation in which these folks have had the privilege to have been citizens of. They are killing the proverbial golden goose that has been laying their proverbial golden eggs. Not only that, but what they are advocating is what is leading to the demise of the American dream for us all, as history attests. Historically, Roman Catholic nations have also not been as prosperous and blessed as the US. Take a look around the nations. Note the history of prominent Roman Catholic nations such as Mexico, Spain, Italy, etc, as well as the American Native Americans where RC has been the dominant Christian religion of them, coupled with paganism. There's Haite, where RC mixes with pagan voodoo to make that looser nation what it's been. Compare some of the South American prominent RC nations, with largely Protestant fundi US. Almost 90% of Mexico's population is Roman Catholic About 5% are Protestant. Previous to that, going back to our founding, the percentage of Roman Catholics in the US was significantly less and Mexico was close to 100% RC. Perhaps some of our members here who have went so far as equating Christian fundies to al-Quada need to count their blessings afforded to them by the fundamentals of Christianity practiced by true Christian fundies. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
PaulK writes: Reality tells a different story. In Western Europe, Christian Fundamentalists are a distinct minority. And, of course, it was Western Europe from which the Plymouth folks left, risking their lives from oppression. It was Western Europe from which Hitler was able to arise to instigate the Jewish Holocaust. It is Western Europe which is now becoming rapidly socialistic and Islamized.
Paulk writes: The U.S.A. was founded as a secular state according to the ideals of the Enlightenment. It hardly seems to owe a lot to Fundamentalist Christianity. Wrong! How could that be when church was held in the halls of congress and the New England Primer, the Bible and Watt's Hymnal were in the public schools? The Constitution and First Amendment disallowed any state religion sect. Thus Biblical scriptures were inscribed in Washington DC's buildings and Christian prayers were said, swearing on the Bible, etc.
PaulK writes: Have you forgotten your history? Remember the part about the Spanish Inquisition? Historically, Spain has not been a bastion of freedom, especially for Protestants.
Spain is not a major power now - but it was once. If Catholicism does not prosper, then how did that ever happen ? PaulK writes: And if you actually look at the present you will hardly find Fundamentalist Christians as the main supporters of freedom in the U.S. - In fact many seem to think of freedom as only the right for THEM to do what THEY want - riding roughshod over everyone else. That is not freedom. It is fundamentalist Christian policies which have been implemented by due process at the poles that makes the laws. If you don't like certain laws, work harder to get your way. In recent decades it's been working quite well on the behalf of the secularist ideologies of you people. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: Buz tends to forget that Jesus would be definitely called a Socialist if not a Communist. The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory. It was totally voluntary and applied only to individuals, his little group of apostles and later to churches. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
fearandloathing writes: I wonder how blessed the native Americans feel? Tell me how Fundy christians have helped them? Good question. When I was young my dad leased a ranch in Wyoming on the Indian reservation. I grew up with and near two Native American reservations. My family lived among one tribe for some years. Back then the government gave them welfare and they received significant oil royalties. They had it made, but the freebies ruined them. All most of them did was drink, get in auto wrecks, fights and other trouble. Our church had a mission ministry among them. The ones who converted to fundi Christianity cleaned up their act. Nearly all of the churches among them were RC. For the most part their religion amounted to a conglomeration of RC and pagan. There was a fundi Christian Native American evangelist who would come to the reservations to minister. My dad gave him a late model Buick and other support to him and his evangelistic family. The Native Americans who were industrious had it made with all of the perks plus their ranches or businesses. Some were rich. Unlike some of these Western tribes, tribes like the Senecas here in upstate NY fared better because they didn't get all of the government hand out. They were known for steeplejacks etc due to their agility. I know one who is a great welder. Many of them live in nice homes, compared to most Western reservations. Before the founders came to America, the pagan natives were very warlike, keeping one another at bay etc. They often applied torture, brutality and fear tactics in their cultures. Imo, the North American Native Americans, by and large have fared better than pre-occupation of the white man. However it was a mistake for us to consign them to reservations rather than let them assimilate and earn their own living. As for breaking the treaties, LOL. The government has a very bad track record on that count with all Americans. A good example is when, by the stroke of the pen, our promissory silver certificate notes promising exchange of the note for silver, for which it represented were rescinded. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: Buzsaw writes:
Governments stepped in to feed the hungry, etc. only after the New Testament Fundie Christians failed to do it. The fact is that you rely on atheists, Roman Catholics, etc. to help you to do what Jesus called on you to to. The difference is that Jesus's sharing agenda had nothing to do with government, nor was it obligatory. In Jesus's day? No. I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically. Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Jar, you post short bare assertion after bare assertion. Get off my back.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: Buzsaw writes:
Read what I wrote:
In Jesus's day? No. quote: AFTER the New Testament Fundie Christians had failed to take care of the poor for centuries, government stepped in only in the past few generations. Don't pretend that that's a bad thing.
Buzsaw writes:
I gave you examples of groups of people who left your "fundie nation" to find more freedom in our "Catholic nation". Christian fundi nations have faired better by and large with more freedom and prosperity etc. Two bare assertions, Ringo. How about some evidence. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. No? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Coragyps writes: I'm not denying that non-fundi groups do not help these days. I'm talking by and large, historically. Then, again, you are talking out your ass. The NON-fundy churches were the ones, in the United States for sure, that did the bulk of the charity work back before Franklin Roosevelt. You hardly ever see "St. Vitus's Pentecostal Holiness Hospital." Methodist? Yup. Presbyterian? Check. Catholic? Lots of 'em. You are Making Stuff Up, Buz. Where's your evidence for those assertions, Coragyps? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Dr Adequate writes: Back then [...] they received significant oil royalties. Maybe I'm missing something. Is it wrong to profit from owning land where there's oil? Or is it only wrong for Native Americans but not for white Texans? You're missing my point, Dr Adequate. More power to anyone fortunate enough to be entitled to oil royalties. My point was the detrimental effect with those oil royalties (significant) coupled with government welfare payments upon the Native Americans. It did to them what it does to all things government subsidized. It produces more welfare and less personal responsibility for one's family's welfare. Not having to work, the people became idle drunkards, having nothing to do productively and having all kinds of time to carouse, drink, engage in criminal activities etc. That's why a small minority of the Native Americans who made good use of the perks from oil and government and who were industrious as well became very affluent; a few becoming very wealthy. Native Americans on reservations, even today, after becoming evangelized or after overcoming the tendency to be lazy, live the good life, benefiting from the perk advantages they have over young whitey ordinary citizen, struggling to get a start in life financially etc. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: Untrue Buz, I ask for evidence. Untrue? Where's your evidence that it's untrue? Most of what you've contributed to this thread are these substance-less repetitive blind assertions. Jar, you remind me of the laughing hyena, following along the herds of wildebeest, nipping incessantly at their heals, hoping eventually to pounce on one one that slips. Edited by Buzsaw, : revise word BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: Buzsaw writes:
The person making the claim that "New Testament Fundi Christians Bless Atheists, Roman Catholics And Others" is the one who is required to provide positive evidence for that claim. Where's your evidence that it's untrue? I'm still waiting for you to explain why several waves of Americans have come to Catholic Canada to escape those "blessings". I've explained and you are not reading objectively. My OP points were not pertaining to specific exceptions. They pertain to by large historically and globally. By and large, historically, the nation of Canada is one of the nations which has fared better than either Mexico and, perhaps (I say perhaps), even the RC majority province of Quebec. No? If not, please show your evidence. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
fearandloathing writes: Taq writes: Yes I have looked there and I guess I am dumb becuase it still didn't answer my question. I guess I am missing something, are all protestant churches fundamentalist?? Fundamentalism is more of a personal belief than a denominational belief. Most would say that Lutherans are much less fundamentalist than Nazarenes, but you could find non-fundamentalists and fundamentalists in each congregation. Christian Fundamentalism is a non-denominational movement. Thanks, This is also what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. I cant say for certain,but it seems that fundamental Christianity is a fairly modern term, 20th century. This being said, then some of the things that have been attributed to Fundy's isn't so. Is this a flawed line of thought?? I do see christian protestant churches in my area doing many good things, I cant say if any of them consider themselves fundamentalist, and it doesn't support the topic either way I don't think. Thanks for helping me clear up my lack of understanding. Here's the deal, relative to my OP. The modern term, fundamentalist/fundi is being misconstrued from it's meaning. What the term means is to follow the fundamentals of the text; in this case, New Testament Christian fundamentals. The modern usage of it is obfuscating it, misconstruing it with evangelicalism. Some nations like in England, New Zealand, and some Scandinavian nations, for example are not evangelistic but do ascribe to the fundamentals of the New Testament. So literally, they are protestant NT fundamentalists. The founders and American protestants, including our founders, by and large, whether evangelical or not, have practiced the tennants of the Biblical NT fundamentals and most of the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament, whereas RCC atheists and others have not. However, Even atheists like Cavediver and other good people here at EVC have been highly influenced by those NT fundamentals and the Ten Commandments. The difference is that in nations which do not have NT fundis and for that matter, evangelicals, are not subjected to the pressure to follow those fundamentals. Even good folks like Cavediver, other atheists and agnostics here at EvC have, for the most part parents or grandparents who have highly influenced how they live in the US and other protestant fundamentalist nations. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Hyroglyphx writes: Buzsaw writes: Wrong! How could that be when church was held in the halls of congress and the New England Primer, the Bible and Watt's Hymnal were in the public schools? The motivations and aspirations of Plymouth settlers and Jamestown settlers were very different from one another. Plymouth was settled by, what was considered to be by the Church of England, heretics. The basic dogma of these "heretics" remain today and make up the bulk of Christian fundamentalism. Hi Hidrglyphx. Thanks for weighing in. Somehow I missed your post due to the fast accumulation of posts and so little time at the computer. As for the differences, nevertheless, the Biblical fundamentalist New England Primerwas used in colonial days and for over a century after the founding. quote: Hyroglyphx writes: The private and public writings of the Founding Fathers make it very clear that there were both deists (which is nothing less than the progenitor of skepticism) and Christians. Not all the Founding Fathers were as Christian as John Jay or as secular as Thomas Jefferson. Nevertheless, do you deny that Thomas Jefferson presided over the education board which sanctioned the Bible and Watts Hymnal as text books in the public schools of Washington DC? My point is that the Biblical fundamentals were the moral underpinnings of free and prosperous nations. These fundamentals affected the majority of the citizens, be they secularistic, RC or Protestants. Even Thomas Jefferson, deist lived by those fundamentals and recognized their values in the public schools.
Hyroglyphx writes: So in the truest sense, neither side can claim total allegiance. Like most societies, their allegiances were divided, just as they are today. And should we expect anything less? America was neither a Christian nation nor a secular nation... It's simply a nation with people of varying beliefs. That doesn't diminish the influence of the Biblical fundamental underpinnings of free and prosperous nations. Sadly, in recent decades, freedom and prosperity has been on the decline as our citizens increasingly reject those fundamentals. Crime, immorality, overcrowded prisons, health issues related to morals, socialism etc escalate as Biblical fundamentals wane.
hyroglyphyx writes: It's a mistake to try and reinvent the past, and it would be foolish to unequivocally categorize the US' past as either secular or Christian when it reality it was a bit of both. You don't have to reinvent the past to understand the difference in nations like the USA, whose underpinnings are largely Biblical fundamentals and say, Muslim theocratic nations, Nazi Germany, secularistic communist nations and Mexico etc. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ZenMonkey writes: Buzsaw writes: You don't have to reinvent the past to understand the difference in nations like the USA, whose underpinnings are largely Biblical fundamentals and say, Muslim theocratic nations, Nazi Germany, secularistic communist nations and Mexico etc. And what exactly ARE these fundamentals that you keep going on about? Please name for me one exclusively "Fundamentalist" moral trait or principle that has contributed to increase in life expectancy, income, or education level, to name but a few. Note that I said EXCLUSIVELY, because for your argument to work, these have to be principles that don't exist in any other belief (or non-belief) system. While you're at it, please show me where these explicitly Biblical principles appear in the Constitution of the United States. That's the document that deliniates how the US is supposed to work as a nation, that and no other. Like so many other people, Buz, you keep mistaking a nation with a population that is predominantly Christian, as this one was at its founding and continues to be, and a Christian nation. A Christian nation would have to be Christian in the same way that Isreal is a Jewish nation or Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation; that is, it would have to have specifically religious laws as part of its legal system. The last time I checked anyway, making a graven image or coveting my neighbor's ass isn't a federal offense. Hi Zen. Good question. I can cite more than one.
Those are a few that come to mind and I'm sure there are others. Though some of the above are not practiced by all in our nation, there are enough who do to a. receive the blessings of the Biblical god, Jehovah and b. influence the population at large. Hitler's Nazi Germany, for example, cursed and killed the Jews, Jehovah's chosen. The people lost their freedoms and prosperity after having departed from Biblical fundamentals and being deceived by a tyrant. The US is currently sliding down that slippery slope and on the decline. Another example: Muslim nations populations surrounding Israel, calling for their demise and fighting them are neither free nor prosperous. Their prophet Mohammed called for waring against their enemies and those who despitefully use them whereas Jesus taught loving and doing good to one's enemies and those who despitefully use them. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: How do "New Testament Fundi Christians Bless Atheists, Roman Catholics And Others"? Evidence Buz, where is the evidence? AbE: Were the Puritans Fundamentalists Buz? The Puritans held to many important fundamentals of the NT. However they were not fundamentalist in some respect. Their aspirations were a Puritan theocracy, imposing their Puritanism upon the citizenry. They were, in a sense, tyrannical, executing some who did not adhere to their Puritanism. In short, they were more Puritan than they were Biblically fundamentalist. The Biblical funamentals that they did promote were a factor in getting America going in the right direction. Thankfully, wiser minds prevailed to eventually weed out the bad aspects of Puritanism for the Colonies. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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