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Author Topic:   "Thuglicans" and the Tea "Federation Party"
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 36 of 127 (607872)
03-07-2011 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Briterican
03-07-2011 3:27 PM


Re: Hate speech is Fox's forte
"I wish there was something we could put in the water to make people smarter and more sceptical".
Leave the water alone, there's something we can put in our SCHOOLS to make people smarter and more skeptical. We should start logic and critical thinking in 5th grade, rather than waiting until high school (at the earliest) or college (more likely) before people are even exposed to this type of reasoning.
Of course, then we'd have 5th graders questioning mommy and daddy when they make claims without reasoning, and we can't have THAT!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Briterican, posted 03-07-2011 3:27 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Briterican, posted 03-07-2011 3:51 PM Perdition has replied
 Message 44 by dronestar, posted 03-08-2011 1:22 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 38 of 127 (607878)
03-07-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Briterican
03-07-2011 3:51 PM


Re: Hate speech is Fox's forte
Very good point. How young is TOO young to teach skepticism/scepticism? (oh screw it I'm in Britain now I'll use their spellings - i.e. scepticism... which just doesn't look right lol)
Every time is see an "sc" I tend to envision it sounding like an elonggated "s" sound or an "sh" sound, despite knowing that's not the case. When I invent words for my fiction, I almost never use the letter "c" at all.
Someone (probably numerous people) have said "We should teach our children how to think, not what to think." And yet we don't. Primary school tends to be rote learning, or at least it was when I was there.
One problem we run into, is that when someone does exactly that, teaching kids how to think rather than what, you end up with a parent who complains about their kids asking too many questions...or asking questions that make the parent uncomfortable. (As an aside, that's why we have parents who wants schools to handle all sex-ed teaching, but also don't want kids to learn anything they don't agree with.)
The few times that I actually enjoyed primary school was when I had a "eureka" moment - for example when my mathematics teacher convinced me that multiplication was easy if I just imagined it as stacks of things. 5 x 10 = five stacks with 10 things in each stack.
Exactly, it's the same for me. Now, when kids are really young, there are some things that need to be learned by rote, such as English, which has exceptions built right into the rules, or things that are too complicated to get into in 1st grade, but teachers should always encourage kids to ask about "why" something works, and my parents' favorite line of "because I said so" should never cut it.
But your post is probably a good intimation of why so many people latch onto an ideology such as that expressed by Beck or Limbaugh and then just roll with it. Perhaps their minds are wired to think that if something is said enough times, it must be right, and it should be logged in the 'ol noggin as a fact.
Between parents and teachers/curiculums that don't encourage (and in some cases even discourage) asking "why," the fallacy of arguments from authority get ingrained in many kids' heads as true, that they never even stop to think that somone on TV might be lying to them...unless of course it's the "other" side who get on TV just to lie because the "truth tellers" are making people "think."
By the same token, the last sentence of your comment "then we'd have 5th graders questioning mommy and daddy when they make claims without reasoning, and we can't have THAT!" could be applied to the masses watching Fox today. Perhaps they are satisfied to be spoon fed their knowledge from a single, biased source, rather than having to get off their butts and fact-check.
In their defense, fact-checking is quite difficult. When the largest source of information is the internet, which also facilitiates people posting anything that they want, you can find 50 sites backing up the latest screed on Fox. And only about 20 of them are owned by Murdoch.
What it comes down to, is that when someone says something you agree with, you see no reason to fact check, because it conforms to what you already "knew" to be true. When that same person says something that you hadn't heard, but it fits in with what you "knew" you're more likely to believe that, and their authority climbs until it reaches a point that they're given the status of prophets or martyrs, depending on the specific case.
The beauty of setting yourself up as a vanguard against "evil" is that you can keep people afraid to turn you off, lest you say something important while they're gone, and when what you're railing about doesn't happen, you can say it's because of the good, hard-working, honest viewrs who were able to stop it from happening...or somesuch nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 45 of 127 (608058)
03-08-2011 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by dronestar
03-08-2011 1:22 PM


Re: Hate speech is Fox's forte
Sounds like something I've repeatedly harped about before
I've been saying this for years, as well.
(Although I would see no reason not to start teaching critical thinking skills at age 2.)
Well, at age 2, it's pretty much in the hands of the parents, so we'll obviously have a range of knowledge/ability on that.
And while we're at it . . . for the love of god, please, remove ALL religious "instruction/education" from childhood. Let's not prime the stupid-pump.
It should definitely be removed form any public schools, but as for parental teachings, I'm loathe to tell parents what they can and can't tell their children, especially if they genuinely believe in a religion. I'd prefer letting kids learn about all religions and choose what makes sense to them (including no religion at all), but again, that's tough to force and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so.
Thanks Perdition.
You're welcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by dronestar, posted 03-08-2011 1:22 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3268 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 59 of 127 (608334)
03-09-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by RAZD
03-09-2011 7:31 PM


Re: is this just a fox bashing session?
Curious then, how a clip from it got on the John Daily show ...
I hope you were saying this sarcastically...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 03-09-2011 7:31 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by RAZD, posted 03-09-2011 7:54 PM Perdition has seen this message but not replied

  
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