Born Again

In a previous post I mentioned that transformation is a life long matter - a process.And in a previous post I indicated Peter's word to the Christians: "As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow into salvation." (1 Pet. 2:2) After being born again and becomming spiritually a "newborn babe" the believer should long to nourish that new life with the word of God. And this daily nourishment will help that new life to grow within him into salvation.Paul corresponds in his letter to the church in Corinth: "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth." (1 Cor. 3:6) There is no shortage of teaching in the New Testament that the new life must grow. There is no instantaneous maturity. But there is an instantaneous birth.One again, of course the New Testament emphasizes the need for spiritual growth of those born again. Paul tells the Galatian believers that he labors as a mother that Christ would be formed within the personalities of those under his care: "My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you." (Gal. 4:19) Growth of Christ must take place after the seed of Christ has been planted. Christ in the spirit is instantaneous. Christ formed in the opinions, mind, emotion, will, soul and personality is a matter of His being formed and taking shape in the believers.Some evangelical preachers have given the impression that to be born again is an end in itself. You cannot blame this caricature on the New Testament.The remedy is firstly be born again, grow, and teach the believers properly. The remedy is not to cynically try to deny the experience as to throw out the baby with the bathwater.John chapter three speaks mostly to the matter of the new birth. Other portions of the Scripture deal with that matter of the need for development, growth and maturation without negating that " ... you must be born again"" Christ in you, the hope of glory, Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ." ( Col. 1:27b,28) The Apostle Paul says they labored, not simply that every man would be presented reborn, but that every man would be presented full-grown in Christ. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It is very good to read anything in the Bible for Holy Spirit enlighened examination of one's life.The new birth in the human spirit can only take place because RIGHTEOUSNESS has been imputed to the believer. And that righteousness is in believing in the Son of God for His saving work. " ... the spirit is life because of righteousness" (Rom. 8:10) The human spirit becomes the ZOE divine life of God only because of righteousness.One trusts in Christ to be his Savior and Lord, and righteousness is imputed to that believer because of his faith. His sins were judged on the cross of Christ. Justice was carried out by God on behalf of that believing sinner.God does not overlook the man's sins. God declares that his sins have been judged on Calvary in Christ's redemptive death.Now the innermost kernel of the believer's being becomes the ZOE life of God because of righteousness - " ... the spirit is life because of righteousness" . "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) God looks upon the believer as if he had never sinned at all. His legacy, his history before a righteous God, is Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ becomes his righteousness before God.In this place of justification from sin because of the man's faith, the human spirit becomes divine and eternal life because of righteousness.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You're still ignoring the Old Testament context. There was plenty of righteousness before Jesus. Noah was righteous (Gen. 7:1) but he still had to build his own ark to be saved from the flood. Abraham even thought it was worthwhile looking for righteous men in Sodom ( Gen. 18:23-32).

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

The Gospel of John and the book of Romans are in the New Testament. So one should pay attention to the New Testament context. This should be done and the context of the whole Bible (NT and OT) not ignored.The New Testament context some modernists and humanists not only "ignore" but actively resist.Abraham was put in a righteous standing before God by his faith. "Abram ... he believed Jehovah, and He accounted it to him as righteousness" (Genesis 15:3a,6). Abraham's righteousness was accounted to him because he believed God.All these ideas from Ringo are just his attempt to deny the new covenant teaching of being born again.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

More utter nonsense and examples of taking stuff out of context.There is no instantaneous change.It really is that simple.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I honestly felt an instantaneous change when I allegedly got born again. The change was utterly blissful, yet scary. I cleaned the house for the first time ever without being told (by anyone or anything outside of my internal will) I felt wiser. I was definitely happier and more at peace. I stopped doing drugs and cussing. And nobody was forcing me to change. Change was coming from within. The Bible made sense for the first time ever, though I will admit that I sought out passages that confirmed what I wanted to feel and believe. The change is ongoing. In some ways, we can equate the change with an ongoing charge, if you so prefer. A charge means nothing to an unconverted man.

Jesus was talking about the Old Testament context. "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" (Joh 3:10) After all, in His time, there was no New Testament for Him to refer to.You're using your slanted view of the New Testament to try to erase what Jesus said. You should be reading the rest of the New Testament in light of what He said, not the reverse. And apparently, so was Lot's righteousness and that of his family (unless you think they were saved from the fire and brimstone because of nepotism). But their righteousness didn't last very long, did it? By the end of the story, they needed to have it regenerated again.Edited by ringo, : Added reference, fixed splling.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

And I believe that we all need to endeavor to renew our imputed righteousness on a daily basis. Just who the heck do I think I AM, anyway?

quote:

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Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

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Hunger and thirst is yet another image of something that happens on a daily basis.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

There is no need for me to argue how instantaneous is instantaneous. There is no need for me to argue on how many milliseconds or nanoseconds it takes God to regenerate a person.No useful purpose is served in trying to scientifically time with a stop watch how long it takes for a person to be born again.If a person wants to insist that he drag out the born again over a long period of time, I have no problem with that. "Lord Jesus, I want to be born again. But Lord I want you to make it last over a period of eight weeks, Okay ? You see I am afraid of this Christianity which puts a false hope in a sudden change. So please Lord Jesus, regenerate me nice and gradually and slowly over a long period." If you want to be born again with that kind of request, I have no problem with that. LOL.Some of learn that God's full salvation is in three stages corresponding to the three parts of man's being. Man has three parts - the human spirit, the human soul, and the human body: "And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:23) The human spirit receives regeneration.
The human soul requires transformation.
The human body awaits transfiguration .Two of these matters happen in time quickly - regeneration and transfiguration.It is more apparent that transfiguration is instant because the Apostle Paul speaks of it happening "in the twinkling of an eye""Behold, I tell you a mystery: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:51-52) The transfiguration of the Chrisian's body will occur fast - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.The transformation of the soul is a on going process. Man can drag it out. Man can procrastinate. Man can cooperate. But with or without cooperation, it is a long process from one degree of glory to another degree of glory to another to another, gradually into the same image as the Lord Jesus: "And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.

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But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17,18) The Spirit of the Lord performs a life long gradual work of transforming the soul - the mind and emotion and will. The destiny is the same image of the Lord Jesus. And the movement is by process - from one degree of expression to another to another and so on - from glory to glory.This is also a part of "conformation". All the believers have a common destiny to be gradually conformed to the image of the son of God (Rom. 8:28,29) Then there is regeneration of the human spirit. That is to be born again. We are working in this case from the outer part of man, deeper into the innermost part. But in actuality God works His salvation from within outward - "And may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete ..." At the moment I can think of no such expression as "twinkling of an eye" to indicate the speed at which being born again happens.Not all Christians can pinpoint the moment in which they were born again. But some can. And there is no reason to be generally skeptical of these testimonies. At one moment they were fearful and full of questionings. They opened their heart to receive Jesus. And in the ensuing MOMENTS they KNEW something had happened deep within their being.I sat across from a young man speaking to him more and more about Jesus Christ. He just listened. Inwardly, beyond human sight and only open to the sight of God, he was opening his heart to Jesus, to the Holy Spirit.Suddenly while I was in the midst of my talking, he got a puzzled look on his face as if something just happened to him. He only said "Hey !". This exclamation as if something unusual just happened within him.I think at that moment he was born again. And he knew that something had happened to him and it had to do with Jesus Christ. This young man became a testifying brother in Christ from that day.No one need be worried that they do not want to fall prey to a "magic moment" which will let them down. I am not claiming that being born again is an end in itself as if all one's problems in the soul are solved the next second.And if you want to ask God to drag it out for a long time just to be safe, I have no biblical argument saying you can't do that.And I will go a little further. If someone is fearful of having only ONE experience of regeneration so he feels to ask God to give him 30 or 40 such regenerations, while I don't think it is necessary, I have no ground to insist he can't ask God for that.While it doesn't do much to help, maybe it can't hurt. But it is more biblical to realize that you only need to let the Lord into your spirit once. Once He comes you have Him forever and ever.When a sinner comes to receive the Lord Jesus he is born again. Of course the accuser will accuse you like this:"Oh, so you think YOU'RE going to be a Christian? Remember what kind of person you are ? Remember what you did just the other day ? You can't be a Christian. Don't you join those hypocrits. You know that you cannot follow Jesus. You still have so many faults and sins. How can you be a disciple of Jesus ?"The answer to this kind of accusation from the Devil that comes, (and it WILL come), is not to beg God for 10, 20, 30 more born agains.It is better to stand by faith on the word of God and on the one regeneration your received and tell the accuser that you are now in Christ and all of your sins are covered in the powerful blood of Jesus.If you resist the Devil he will flee from you. And you can resist by standing upon the one born again experience that you had.Is this a biblical attitude? Yes it is. And it is done through the act of baptism. Once you experience the one event of being born again you should immediately declare to the universe that you have been absolutely place in Christ for eternity. And the NT tells the new believers to be baptized to mark such a public milestone of thier being joined to Jesus Christ. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Phat, thankyou for that confirming testimony.There are many many like it. Then there are others in which the interesting part is the part leading up to being regenerated or soon afterwards.Either way, we know that regeneration through the Spirit of Jesus Christ is a reality.Thanks again.

But alas, all you have are stories from the faithful. Not real convincing. Evidently you have a skewed definition of reality.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

As we go on to study God's salvation carefully, we learn that there is the positional righteous man and the dispositional righteous man.There is the man justified by God who is on a rightoeus standing, but in his living he is defeated.And there is the man justified by God who has gone on to being victorious in sanctification.There is the one forgiven, made righteous who is defeated in his daily living. And there is the one forgiven, made righteous, who is overcoming - an overcomer.Lot was a defeated righteous man. Lot was not an overcoming righteous man.Lot was a made justified before God and saved but in his daily living remained defeated.I know that you thought you had a ace of spades there. But I already wrote above to show how Paul said he labored to present the saved believers FULL-GROWN in Christ. You need to be put in a righteous standing before God in His justification. Then you need a sanctification and transformation to be an overcomer rather than a defeated righteous man.It all right there in the New Testament. No decoder ring needed. But learning from others who have experience is helpful. "... you must be born again" . is what the Son of God said. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

That's just more of Jaywill's Assertion instead of Bible Study. Show us chapter and verse where any of that is suggested in the Old Testament context which Jesus was talking about. The key word there is "laboured". It takes work to become full-grown. There is no magical moment when you "reach" your full potential of growth. It's an ongoing process.

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If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

Theodoric, be realistic. There are thousands of testimonies through the ages of followers of Jesus.You mean to tell me NONE of them are trustworthy ? I don't believe that. If you read some of the autobiographies of believers, you cannot dismiss them all as 700 Club sensations.Would you say everyone writing on the Internet is lying because some wackos are out there ?I have read and heard testimonials which I trust. Sorry, if you can't trust a solitary one. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.