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Author Topic:   Another "New" View of Creation
tuffers
Member (Idle past 5305 days)
Posts: 92
From: Norwich, UK
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 29 of 64 (516077)
07-23-2009 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Will Seamus Ennis
07-23-2009 8:41 AM


INTELLIGENCE?
Hi Will
It seems to me that you are trying to use the one word, "intelligence", to describe and link at least 3 completely different things: the laws of physics, the division of organic cells, and volition.
I wouldn't claim to be an expert on any of those subjects, but I'm pretty sure that atoms, DNA code, and the mind all have very different properties that should not be classified under the same word with just one meaning. You can call certain properties of an atom "intelligence" if you so wish, but don't confuse it with the same meaning of "intelligence" that is given to the mind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-23-2009 8:41 AM Will Seamus Ennis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-23-2009 10:35 AM tuffers has replied

  
tuffers
Member (Idle past 5305 days)
Posts: 92
From: Norwich, UK
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 47 of 64 (516210)
07-24-2009 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Will Seamus Ennis
07-23-2009 10:35 AM


PATTERNED RESPONSE
Hi Will
OK. I think I can see where you are coming from on this. I haven't had time to read anyone else's views, but here's mine.
I would say there is a distinct difference between the affect certain conditions or stimuli may have on inanimate objects (of any size) and the affect they may have on organic life. Inanimate objects do not "make a response" to anything. They do not have any kind of self-interest. They do not react. They are simply pushed and pulled by the laws of physics, like pebbles being washed up and down a beach.
Simple organic life (such as a single celled bacteria), can make a "patterned response" as you call it to certain stimuli, but these are simple types of reflex action; they cannot truly be expressed as self-interest as they have no sense of self. There is no congnitive or conscious thought behind these responses. The organism has no idea of its own existence and no will to live.
Complex organisms like human beings also respond to conditions and stimuli all the time without the cognitive or conscious brain being aware of this. In that sense you could say we make a "patterned response". But we also have cognitive and conscious minds that operates on quite a distinct and different level, with a true self-interest. We have the ability to DECIDE what kind of response to make. Now it may be that when you break down all the processes that make that decision, you would find that they were a complex accumulation of patterned responses. But I don't accept that each of those patterned responses in isolation represents an kind of intelligence, any more that a wire or a bolt makes an engine.
So, in summary, I would say this:
- Inanimate objects make no patterned responses and have no intelligence.
- Simple life forms make patterned responses but have no intelligence.
- Complex life forms make patterned responses and have intelligence.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add blank lines.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-23-2009 10:35 AM Will Seamus Ennis has not replied

  
tuffers
Member (Idle past 5305 days)
Posts: 92
From: Norwich, UK
Joined: 07-20-2009


Message 48 of 64 (516211)
07-24-2009 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Will Seamus Ennis
07-23-2009 10:35 AM


PATTERNED RESPONSE
Will
Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'd better point out that I realise I didn't explain something correctly in my last message!
I chose the wrong word when I said inanimate objects do not react to anything. Of course, atoms and molecules do make chemical "reactions". I should have just stuck with your word "response".
This doesn't affect my argument though. Inanimate objects can only react according to the laws of physics. They have no interest in the matter. Organisms have evolved to react/respond to their own benefit, even if they are too simple to know it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Will Seamus Ennis, posted 07-23-2009 10:35 AM Will Seamus Ennis has not replied

  
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