We're Really Chimps???

I was in a chat room and learned that the human genome project has proven that... I tried to say that our DNA is very similar, but has important differences. I pointed out that there billions of base pairs and 2% of billions is a significant difference. I asked why the proteins fold differently if the DNA is actually just the same with a few extra useless strands...answer: "it's a mystery." I wondered what about those poor human parents whose newborns' proteins did NOT fold differently.Is this current thinking? We're just chimps whose proteins inexplicably fold differently??? Is this what the human genome project has determined?

AdminAsgara,I thought it was just a chatty sort of topic...I forget that Coffee is for non-EvC discussions.Sorry and thanks.

1.61803,I'm actually not expecting educated evolutionists to make statements like: "human DNA is really chimp DNA, but the proteins mysteriously fold differently." But 2 or 3 people seemed really convinced of this and it also seemed to have been a recent-news type thing (I don't have cable and don't subscribe to magazines or anything).But I'm not sure what you mean...is my OP confusing?

Hi RAZD,Heh...I meant this to be more or less a funny topic (thus my attempt at putting this in the Coffee House. I guess it could EVOLVE into a serious topic.No...it's worse than saying that our DNA has some different folds or whatnot...the fellow said that the DNA is the same but the PROTEINS just fold differently for some reason in humans...it's "mysterious," of course.Then there were one or two who chimed in with comments like, "Yep, were chimps." I was dumbfounded. I told the fellow he had left the realm of reality when he said "the DNA is the same but the proteins just fold differently in humans." The human genome project proves this (his claim, not mine)...I think I even told him that many evolutionists (you guys here) do not make such claims.He encouraged me to study the human genome project so that I, too, could share in this knowledge.I will try to look into it though...it's possible, I suppose, that there's some kind of article or something out there about this (severely misinterpretted, perhaps).

Hi Rrhain,The fellow et al. most likely misunderstood some recent science news. That's what I think. I thought it was a hilarious interpretation of the DNA similarities issue. That's interesting. I think I have read something similar...perhaps in Michael Behe's book, which along with a 1990 public high school biology text is a significant source of my total, inadequate genetic knowledge.To be honest, I believe (not expecting ANYBODY to agree) most all animals (say from fish and up) to be based on the human structure (from an Intelligent Design POV--i.e., God designed the human structure first and based most other life forms (particularly the ones humans would be seeing and interacting with) on that basic idea--i.e., one nose, two eyes, fore and hind limbs, etc.)Seems, too, that I've read that similar structures--say a frog foot and a human foot--can be coded for in radically different ways, but that might have been me misunderstanding something. I suppose the 2% difference could be affecting just that. From my point of view (God working from the human image down--as far as designing goes), God altered the code just a bit. It has two potential lessons in my mind...first one is that humans may not be as wonderful as they sometimes think themselves to be. The other one is that God can accomlish a lot by doing only a little." Perhaps God just removed the "super expression" code module and left the chimps everything else.

Hi Juhrahnimo, Oddly enough, I had trouble telling whether you were a creationist or an evolutionist. I thought you were just being a smart-alecky creationist. I no longer think that, though.No, it is NOT obvious that man evolved from chimps. It IS obvious that we have similar body and DNA structures. What these two facts combined prove is that humans and chimps have similiar body and DNA structures. If we were to study the similariities to the n^th degree, apart from all other facts, we could never surmise HOW either chimps or humans came to be.It is just as "obvious" to me that God made chimps and humans similar in many ways but also significantly different in many ways. Very interesting. I have just heard of "junk" DNA. As one who believes in God, I have trouble grasping the idea of "junk" DNA. I could see calling it "not-well-understood" DNA, of course. I think this conclusion that some DNA is accumulated but useless copying errors or something is a result of trying to cram square facts into a round evolution paradigm. So, I would naturally expect that scientists will be continually amazed that DNA does things they didn't think it did, since they think it's all of random origin and I think it is intelligently engineered. You may be interested in my new thread, which just got going called, Message 1.Regards,
--TheLiteralist

Hi Ned, Cooool. I know that evolutionists are seeing this from the common ancestry perspective, but I am seeing it more as a computer programmer using a perfectly good module (perhaps with minor adjustments) for similar purposes in various software codes (various mammal, perhaps various vertebrates, in this case)--it just seems extremely efficient. Sometimes, I wish money and time were no object...I might go for a masters or doctorate degree in some field that really dives into this DNA stuff--just to know it. In my case, though, it causes deep appreciation for the One I consider to be the Engineer. Looking at Hubble telescope pictures has a similar effect on me.I shall, hopefully, get around to perusing those links sometime.I meant for it to be a goof-off topic, but it's turning out quite good.Thanks,
--TL

Hi Jurhrhanimo,Okay...so I can tell from another thread that you believe the Bible. Just so I know, do you believe in evolution or not?Just so you know, I do believe the Bible, and I don't believe evolution.--TL

Hi Rrhain,You wrote:

quote:

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Part of the difference between human and chimpanzee biology, it seems, is that humans have much more expression of certain proteins than others. With regard to the brain, humans express some proteins much more than chimpanzees. It isn't just the genes. It's also the gene regulation and expression.

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I was thinking about this comment today while at work. It dawned on me that PERHAPS the fellow was trying to say the very similar DNA sequences are getting expressed differently when proteins are made...as you've indicated here...and he just didn't quite have the understanding to communicate the idea as you have. Now I feel bad for running here and kinda poking fun at him--like I haven't ever said something stupid because I was talking about something somewhat (or, in some cases, completely) out of my league.--TL

Hi Rrhain, Hmmm...the photon loss, for me, has caused relatively few problems. And, if cephalopoids are octopi and such, then there is at least a slight difference in environmental variables that needs to be considered. Could it be that in the air, it is best to lose photons so as not to overload the vision system with light energy. Yet, for the cephalopoids, the water is already filtering out many photons and, so they get a reversed design to make up for that fact? Just a guess. Could be any number of reasons why a designer might do something like that.Something else to consider is that, if the Bible is true, then we are no longer living in the original, optimal edenic environment...the Flood, which I'm not assuming you believe, destroyed that.Of course, God knew He'd send a Flood to destroy the paradise and that afterwards we'd be intelligent but rather needy creatures. You seem to be assuming He wouldn't want us to be needy. Consider the following verse (and there are many that could be used): I have never had the impression that the God of the Bible intended our present bodies to be perfect in this life (at least not after the Fall in Eden). Jesus (God in the flesh) said, "..in the world ye shall have tribulation..." (John 16:33) Job said, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble" (Job 14:1). If you'll bear with one more biblical selection: Now, I am not using these verses to convince you to believe in the God of the Bible as I do, I am only pointing out that the God of the Bible seems very aware of the imperfections and troubles in humanity. He also, as far as I can tell, is saying that He is responsible for these things, at least in some cases (exceptions possibly being when damage is self-inflicted--for instance, if I eat McDonald's morning, noon, and night).So, right after creation we lived in the optimal environment. Sin changed that by introducing death. But even then we lived to be nearly 1000 years old. After the Flood the resulting environmental damage has caused our life span to diminish down to the 100 years we experience (if lucky) today.You seem to be assuming He would want it to be perfect for us right now. He seems to indicate that perfection is possible only in the hereafter. So, IF you are referring to the God of the Bible (and you might not be), then I'd say you have misunderstood Him (if I have read my Bible correctly).--TL